OT TRig Conditions (TRC) thread


#340

I agree. IMO @Elektron should remove its use in chromatic mode, so the page button can be used for fills in the same way as AK/A4/AR

Or have it as a user selectable (personalise) option?

I’ve used it in chromatic mode maybe 3 times, but would use it for fills daily!


#341

Page button is also page/row select for slice and slot mode, scale change for delay control…


#342

True @Open_Mike!

How about just having fill mode work with a single scale/page button push when not in any of the other modes (chromatic/slices/delay ctrl), and obviously when the grid recording is off (as on AR)

I guess may confuse matters to have different key combos in different modes.

But to have a simpler way to activate a fill, when not in a mode that uses PAGE/SCALE for another purpose, would be great from where I’m standing :slight_smile:


#343

The page button isn’t used in regular tracks mode or quick mute mode, would be nice if it worked for fills at least in tracks mode. Maybe a personalize option, something like “Quick fill mode”: Fills are activated by page button alone while in tracks or quick mute mode and not in grid recording.


#344

That’d be perfect! Pretty please Elektron


#345

A tip to invert A:B behaviors :
Place a /PRE trig were you want to hear it.
Place a trigless trig before, with A:B


Digitakt/Digitone Protip: Playing a pattern 4 times and having a trig only fire the first three times
#346

I think I’ve found what might be an issue
New project, super simple test, set per pattern track length and put master to 32 (patterns 16 long)

:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::black_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle: T1 contains a TRC at tr9 1:2

:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::black_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle: T2 contains a NEI TRC at tr9

this will work fine and if you move the T2 trig left it will still play when you’d expect (a bit later than T1) as follows

:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::black_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle: T2


:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::black_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::black_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle: T1 playing twice 1:2 - but now T2 (below is 1/2x)

:white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::black_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square::white_circle::white_small_square: T2 won’t play if trig used is 1 to 5 (even with Micro timing shift extreme right on 5) but it will play if T1 is set to 2:2

I can see a few head-scratching scenarios stemming from this or similar - ( I vaguely recall discussing something a bit like this with void back in the day, there was a reset anomaly depending on the master length for the analogs, need to look back ) - but to my logic here it’s working when i’d imagine it wouldn’t and vice versa - [ plus, if you dial between 1:2 and 2:2 on T1 whilst playing it can sometimes play the two sounds synchronously for 1:2, but only once just after you set it, it then stops playing T2 ]

So even though the two trigs notionally overlap T1 tr9 is at the same point in time as T2 tr5 @ 1/2x if the TRC is 1:2 you won’t hear it (but you do if it’s 2:2) … understanding why may be useful, it’s too late here … if anyone has any insights then chip in … it’s good to be aware of the pitfalls

ps (if master is set to 16 the 1:2 will work, but only half of T2 will play)


#347

@avantronica, could you sum up?
I don’t understand what’s the issue, and I’m too tired to test it.


#348

trigs at half speed are not where you think they are (in the sequencer hierarchy) in terms of TRC applicability

a trig at the same event time (or even delayed by microtiming) in one scenario doesn’t give the same result when it’s arriving at the same time in another scenario

i.e. seq event 1x @ Trig 9 is accounted for differently to seq event 2x @ Trig 5 (even if delayed)

then there’s two scenarios for arguably similar configurations where one will never play

or ,to sum up, it’s a nuanced subject especially when you factor in different rates - I can’t find an older chat about some of this which factored in when the accounting was stored for the truth table for the last sequence, it’s some bit mask number(s) which are only settled once during a pattern, so if you hop between chains and so on, it can get very tricky to get your head around as previous truth calcs are not accounted for … some such chat along those lines which I’ll need to find, I’m wondering if the 1/2 speed track thing is working as expected, but i’d argue that the two synchronous trig approaches above should be giving the same results - clearly there’s some aspect of an algorithm which isn’t seeing Track1 1x Trig9 as having happened before Track2 1/2x Trig5 (even delayed)

The point being that it’s very handy when synchronous events can be coordinated, but it’s not hanging together as it ideally might have with different track rates

I don’t think this clears much up tbh - I’m just curious if it all makes sense so it can be predictable/exploitable/mastered


#349

That’s enough as sum up for me ! :wink:
Thanks for clarification.
Check this later.


#350

This explains the walls I was hitting with something I was trying to do yesterday, thanks!


#351

Hi,

Warning: long post!

Intrigued by this thread I decided to do some experiments on my own as I am really hacking the trig conditions since they came to the ot. My setup:

Track 5: (trig 5 is set to 2:3)

:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::two::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:

Track 6: (the diamonds on trigs 1,5 and 13 are all set to the “nei” condition)

:large_orange_diamond::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::large_orange_diamond::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::large_orange_diamond::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:

Both tracks run a simple 16 step length on normal scaling.

So what happens once I press play?

*On the first pass, nothing happens, as expected. The trig on track 5 should only be heard on the second pass out of three, so it indeed keeps quiet…And consequently so do all trigs on track 6.

*On the second pass, trig 5 of track 5 is indeed heard as expected. This sets all nei conditioned trigs of track 6 to true. Trig 14 is therefore indeed heard as it comes later in time than trig 5 on track 5. Nothing fancy…

*Intriguingly trig 5 of track 6 also fires during the second pass, even if you microtime it to the left or right. The fact that it is on the same step as it’ s neighbour (track 5) seems to be enough to trigger it in the same pass.

*On the third pass trig 1 of track 6 is heard. After all, it was set to true on the second pass and now is the first time the sequencer passes it…so it fires off once. The others keep quiet as expected.

==================
Once I start changing the individual scales some other things seem to happen:

Experiment 1:

I set the scale of track 6 to 2x,

What happens now is that the trigs in track 6 are heard during the full one pass of track 5…as that corresponds to 2 passes of track 6, you will hear all them as described above but during the full 2 passes of track 6.

Experiment 2:

Set track 5 to half speed. Keep track 6 on 2x.

Now something strange happens: Nothing triggers ever!..

However: If I set the master sequencer to 32 steps and therefore allow track 5 to fully end it’ s pass, the second pass of track 5 indeed fires…Since track 5 is running at half speed while track 6 runs at double speed, one pass of track 5 corresponds to 4 passes of track 6. Therefore the trigs on track 6 fire the full 4 passes.

The effect becomes even stronger once we set track 5 to 1/4x speed. You now have to put the master sequencer to 64, otherwise track 5 will never make a full pass of itself. Setting to 64 now yields 4x2=8 passes on track 6.

I did what I could to keep this understandable…Some very complex things can be achieved with this, but you easily drown in your complexity…Hope this helps :slight_smile:

M.


#352

I thought NEI was for corresponding Trigs only!
Thanks.

For sure ! With different Scales, my brain hurts.


#353

Nei means the last evaluated TRC event on the preceding track

The order is track 1 > 2 etc, so that’s why I was curious about the 1/2 speed overlap (it discounts microtiming evidently and looks at seq trig num) … but somehow discards the 1/2 speed nei at 5 as having been preceded by an earlier track’s 1speed at 9 even though they happen at the same time

I’ll have a deeper look when I can draw it all out which helps - also master length comes into it in terms of this bookkeeping which happens - at least when it does to pattern jumping which is more sophisticated on the analogs …


#354

I think this may be the reason I had a suspected bug that I posted about in another thread. I’m using 1/2 scale and odd numbers of steps regularly and have had a couple of weird behaviours using NEI, interesting but not expected behaviour.


#355

it was probably mentioned before in this thread, but I found that trig counts are now also available for midi trigs. That wasn’t available before, right?
So you are not dependent on the arp speed to get ratcheting happening.
Always hoped for conditional + retrigs, now they are here for audio and midi. Can’t believe it :slight_smile:


#356

I was unable to find one in the 1.30B manual. ::sob:

As a string player I would really prefer to trigger a fill with a press of a footpedal instead of reaching over for 2- or 3-button combos. Adding to the list of feedback items to submit to Elektron…


#357

…And mine is starting to hurt now that I am experimenting with different track lengths and 3/4 scales…Without a pencil, a piece of paper and doing the math, the ot goes beyond what my mind can keep track of…In the end it all works out and it is a funny thing to do but not very productive as the complexity the ot allows for goes seriously beyond what fits in my brain…let alone 3 days later when I forgot what I was doing in the first place.

All the offerend options make sense once you have a clear vision of how and where to use them in a perfomance.

By the way: I just started combining a couple of things:

  1. Combine one shot trigs with trig coditions on the same step: The true/false and x:x relations all hold as advertised, but now the trig only fires when armed…again just as advertised…and here we have yet another layer of complexity/possibilities.

  2. Tracks can be set to free running…Now the ot becomes really offensive :slight_smile: For example in the post above: set track 5 to free running and trig mode to one/two. Now you can turn track 5 on or off as you like and once you turn it on, the counters for the trig conditions start counting…

@avantronica Good idea to use emoticons for drawing steps. Really clears up complex step things on the board.:+1:

M.


#358

It’s the button on the bottom right of the unit - labeled “Scale Setup”.

The manual is a bit of a fuckup - it calls that button “Pattern Page” or something. They really need to change the wording in the manual to match what the goddam label actually says next to the button.


#359

A post was merged into an existing topic: Octatrack OS 1.30B is here