Midi Bank Select (outgoing)

[KaOsphere]

This is not a problem with the only octatrack. I have other pieces of gear which present the exact same behaviour…And it is even more disturbing when it comes from something like the pyramid. I’m normally not the one who defend elektron, but this time, it is maybe more of a midi problem…

[pinup57]

it is maybe more of a midi problem…

Definitely not an midi problem, but a design choice. I use extrernal midi controllers to change patches/sounds/banks/patterns and it just works fine.

[Deus2k]

Hi ! Thanks for your answer ?
I might do something wrong…

This is what I do to select the program 2.4 on the synth.

On the midi track 1, on SRC:

-Channel 12 (it’s the one I’m using for the NL4)
-Bank 2
-Prog 4

Then on MIDI CTRL 1 SETUP
CC2 0 BANK
CC3 32 BSEL LSB

ON midi control 1 page
CC2 0
CC3 3 ( as the 0 is 1, 1 is 2, 2 is 3, …)

And nothing … snif

[Open_Mike]

Not responding to the last post but just a general comment…

If your synth attached to OT can run in what’s known as “local off” mode and you enable cc direct connect then not only any changes to CC knobs and plocks made on the OT will affect the synth but also changing the knobs on the synth that are assigned to CC’s on OT will change the parameters on the OT. If you can configure this correctly you can change parameters or program on the synth and the OT registers that as a new value so it will indeed send a CC or Program Change even if it is the same as the last value sent from the sequencer…

Local off basically cuts off internal control of a synths parameters from its own buttons and knobs and instead sends midi for everything. You then run that midi into OT which bounces it right back to the synth. There is no change in the behavior of the synth but the OT now sits in between the synths knobs and the actual internal sound engine of the synth so it can register that values have changed when you turn synth knobs. Now the sequencer will send a CC it wouldn’t have if the synth wasn’t in local off because any synth knob movements to knobs assigned to OT CC’s are now value changes on the OT…

[pinup57]

but just a general comment…

That was a very useful and comprehensive explanation, @Open_Mike. Nevre used this, but certainly will . Thanks!

[sezare56]

Cc00 cc32 and Pc have to be in the right order.
It is doable, but pita. As similar message are sent only once, you also have to them to different values just before. I’d use a midi processor.

MIDI Program Change with Sub 37?

Not sure it helps for Sub 37, but I found this way to send CC0, CC32, Prog Change in the right order. New project Set your Prog Change Place a trig with CC1=CC0 and CC2=CC32 Microtiming = - 5/384 Done

[vehka]

If you want a bank change, you need to do a part change in Octa. See this post:

MIDI Program Change with Sub 37?

You can actually do a bank change with the Octa, but it’s a bit of a hassle. After some trying, I managed to nail it down so that it worked consistently. (This is with a Nord Drum 2.) You activate the bank change by changing parts in Octa. Before doing the part change, at the end of the previous pattern, send CC0 & CC32 one after another (adjacent steps). CC32 specifies the Bank number. The program number of the new bank is determined in the MIDI options of the new pattern. So, bank is set with…

[sezare56]

See my above post too!
I found a way to send CCs before the PC, on same pattern. On your post, it’s previous pattern.

you need to do a part change in Octa

Good to remember you need a part change!

[vehka]

Oh, nice, with microtiming, I see!

[sezare56]

Btw is it weird it works. I’d like people could confirm it!

[vehka]

This is one of those things that should be in a FAQ. I’ll test your way next time I’ll sit down with my OT.

[Deus2k]

I managed doing a Bank and Program Change on the SRC menu just by using a IConnect Midi 4+ and remap the right channel …
Tonight I will try other options again

[PeterHanes]

Digitone OS 1.20 introduces a new SBNK parameter for its MIDI sequencer tracks that sends CC32. Elektron even says that this is a bug fix in the release notes. Can we hope that Elektron provides a similar bug fix for the Octatrack after all these years?

Edit to add: let’s hope Elektron gets it right if they try a similar bug fix on the OT:

Sending Bank Changes after 1.20 Update

Prior to the latest update, I had set up all my tracks to properly send program/bank changes to my hardware synths. Since the unit did not initially send Sbank messages correctly, I would use a workaround to access the different midi Banks on my Alesis Micron by sending a midi message with CC32 followed by the standard patch change message. After updating, they changed the way Program Change messages were sent out and this this little trick does not seem to work anymore. But to add to my woes, t…

[sovietpop]

I’ve done some testing with my Octatrack and Ambika and i think there is a bug with bank change on the Octatrack.

My Ambika only use CC0 (MSB) for bank change so it should be fine. (doesnt need LSB CC32)

If i program 3 parts with different program change with different bank num it work BUT the
2 successive program change number must be different otherwise its not working.
EX :

Part 1 : program 20 bank 0
Part 2 program 13 bank 1
part 3 : program 20 bank 1

If i do part 1 -> part 2 -> part 3 its fine but if i do part 1 -> part 3 it doesnt change bank because i keep the same program number. same thing for 3->1. So the limitation here is if 2 successives programs change has the same program number it doesnt change bank.

Also i must disable prog change in sync menu in prference.

[sezare56]

If 2 successives programs change has the same program number it doesnt change bank.

2 successive Control Changes are not sent too. It has to be an option.

Also i must disable prog change in sync menu in prference.

Why? If it’s on a different midi channel…

[sovietpop]

Its just weird that i cant change bank if i dont change the program number.

And having to change part to change program is confusing imo. Sample assignment are changing too so i have to copy part 1 to part 2 and after that i have to set the proper midi channel , program etc.
Would make sens to have parts for midi and part for audio … i dont know…

I really like the Octatrack but i am thinking more and more about a Deluge for live work.

[sezare56]

Its just weird that i cant change bank if i dont change the program number.

More than weird, I’d say buggy, not finished…

I solved that with a midi processor, mapping notes or CCs to Program Changes. It gives the possibility to change PCs when you want, randomize them…without part changes.
With a Blofeld I even used drums patches of a bank as a drum kit, notes and Pcs at the same time.

Concerning polyphony and overdub limitations, I have an MPC500 I don’t use.

[LazyLion]

Greetings,

So prior to today I’ve never heard of NRPN messages. To my understanding they exist to cover parameters that aren’t otherwise covered by simple CC messages.

I’m trying to change bank/patch selection via OT, like in the MIDI note menu. When I turn those knobs nothing seems to happen on the Rev2. I see at the end of the Rev2 manual that changing programs/patches is not covered by a CC message, but rather an NRPN message.

How do I control bank/patch selection via the OT without a CC message? How do I know what CCs to combine to be able to map a knob on the OT that DOES control bank/patch selection?

[PeterHanes]

NRPN with Rev2 to OT

prior to today I’ve never heard of NRPN messages. To my understanding they exist to cover parameters that aren’t otherwise covered by simple CC messages.

That’s basically correct.

NRPN with Rev2 to OT

I see at the end of the Rev2 manual that changing programs/patches is not covered by a CC message, but rather an NRPN message.

No. You have confused Program Change (which is given in the list of received channel messages) with program parameter data (which the Rev2 can receive either by CC or NRPN).

NRPN with Rev2 to OT

How do I control bank/patch selection via the OT without a CC message? How do I know what CCs to combine to be able to map a knob on the OT that DOES control bank/patch selection?

To send a Program Change message, you can either:

• set the OT to send the message whenever it switches to a new pattern, or
• set a value for PROG in the NOTE SETUP page of a MIDI sequencer track.

Both methods will allow you to change to any program in the currently-selected bank of the Rev2.

While there is a BANK parameter in the NOTE SETUP page, Elektron didn’t implement it according to the MIDI standard and it will therefore have no effect on the Rev2.

The Rev2 manual says (received controller messages) that it uses CC 32 for the Bank Select message with values from 1 to 8 for the 8 banks of programs. Therefore, to change bank and program, you would need to send it CC 32 with the appropriate bank value and IMMEDIATELY follow it with Program Change and the number of the desired program.

Earlier posts in this topic give some examples of the workaround in action.

(Elektron has acknowledged this as a bug for the Digitakt and Digitone and fixed it, but Octatrack owners still await a fix.)

[LazyLion]

Thanks for the reply.

I think I understand the second method you mentioned somewhat, but how would I set the OT to send the message whenever it switches to a new pattern? I’ll also look at some of the other posts ITT.