Midi Bank Select (outgoing)


#1

hi,

since i have the octatrack i have this problem and i do with it.

It seems that that the octatrack does not work with all the machines for the midi bank change function.

my octatrack controls DSI prophet and a ATC-X ( by studio electronics).
When I want to send a bank change ( ATCx has 4 banks of 127 patchs and the prophet has 2 banks ), neither the prohet and the atc x answer to the midi message sending by the octatrack.

Does anyone have a clue about this problem ?

thanks for helping


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#2

So, this is really irritating. The OT only uses CC 0 for bank changes. To get bank changes that require CC 32 (probably about half the gear out there?), you have to set a Midi Control for CC 32, move that knob the right bank, then send the Program Change again by swapping. I have a ticket in to Elektron about this. I’d suggest putting one in as well.

Edit: My Ticket (which closed in February and I forgot)

The bank select in the midi track setup page in only ever MSB. To get LSB, I have to map one of the controllers to LSB (CC#32), send the the right LSB bank, resend right MSB bank select and finally send the right patch. Can you add bank select LSB to the midi setup page in one of the three blank spaces? All of my current hardware (electribes, micro q, etc.) uses LSB for bank change (or both, like my AN200) and this work-around is pretty tedious.


Nord lead 2x bank select
Dsi tetra and octatrack
#3

yes it’s working now !!
Fu… great !

but what i have notice is that my atc x react to the cc32 only if the number in midi “BANK” in the OT is correct.

thank you


#4

I just discovered this issue with my tetra too. And it seems Monomachine but I’ll double check that one.

Wish I knew more about midi because all this msb/lsb has me rather confused.


#5

Elektron’s documentation is hopeless on programme change. I can’t even get this to work between Octatrack and Analog 4, and they were meant to be designed as partners!! (And yes I’ve got all the system options set correctly in both boxes.) I gave up trying to use my Virus C live with the OT because I just couldn’t rely on them to speak to each other. Sometimes it would work and then it wouldn’t.


#6

Ok, so, most midi values are from 0 to 127, right? That’s a 7-bit number.

Part of the midi spec allows for more precision than that. So, there are certain things that take two control values, and use both to create a single number.

By putting these two 7-bit numbers values together, you get a single value that’s a 14-bit number. So, you have from 0 to 16383.

So, one of those two values is the MSB, or Most Significant Byte, and the other is the LSB, or Least Significant Byte.

You can think of it like this:

(MSB * 128) + LSB = The 14-bit Number

So, if you need to get to Bank 200, the MSB would be 1 and the LSB would be 72. (1*128)+72=200.

Or, as the bits:

[ul]
[li]MSB (1) = 0000001[/li]
[li]LSB (72) = 1001000[/li]
[li]14-Bit (200) = 0000001 1001000[/li]
[/ul]

Now, here is the problem. Pretty much no synth has more than 128 banks. The midi spec was … a little ambitious. So, there are:

[ul]
[li]Synths that require just the LSB Bank Change[/li]
[li]Synths that require just the MSB Bank Change[/li]
[li]Synths that require both … even though they still have 128 or less banks[/li]
[/ul]

If you’ve ever used a synth that uses NRPNs, rather than CCs? You’ve probably seen this. All 16384 NRPNs and all 16384 different values for each on of those can be done with 4 CCs.

[ul]
[li]NRPN Controller MSB (CC 99)[/li]
[li]NRPN Controller LSB (CC 98)[/li]
[li]NRPN Value MSB (CC 6)[/li]
[li]NRPN Value LSB (CC 38) <- Optional[/li]
[/ul]

Send two CCs to set the NRPN you want to control, then send two more CCs of the value they should update to.


#7

thank you for all o f these answer…
i can more and more understand dhow it is working.

What is the ATC X midi language ? LSB ?
what is NRPN ? is it useful for the ATC X ?

maybe i have spoken too fast about controlling my ATC X with the octatrack :

Actually I have these procedure :

i choose OT (CC2) = CCO = bank SEL
i choose OT ( CC3)=CC32 = BSEL LSB. With this CC, as o normal way, if i send value of 0 i play with ATC X bank 1 ; if i send a value of 1 i can play with ATC X bank 2 etc…adn so on until bank 4.

BUT if i made this following test the ATC X does not respond correctly :

We consider Octatrack pattern 1 is playing with PART 1 and i send with this PART 1 a value of 0 for CC32 message so that the ATCX has to play with BANK1.
then we consider Octatrack pattern 2 is playing PART2 and i send with this PART2 a value of 1 for CC32 so that the ATCX normally has to play with BANK2.
When i change between these 2 patterns, the ATC X does not change it’s BANK !!
But if i quickly double tap on the STOP button of the Octatrack, the ATc X change it’s BANK !

What is my problem ? please help. I’m pretty sure a tiny stuff is missing…


#8

I have the same problem between my octatrack and a mini nova synth. I have to press twice the stop button on the octatrack to effectively trigger the synth with nrpn …

Did you find a solution ?


#9

no .
i gave up controlling my atc X in a live situation via MIDI and chose to record my atc x into the octatrack even if it’s less


#10

I dig up this post.

I have the problem with my Nord Drum 2. User manual page 31:
“Bank Select, Tone Pitch and Echo BPM have settings in the Nord Drum 2 that requires a pair of LSB and MSB values (Least Significant - and Most Significant Byte) to be acknowledged. Transmit the LSB value first, then the MSB value.”

Any progress about it ? Any OT update to fix it ?


#11

The issue is further complicated by the fact that the OT uses CC32 for something, LFO2 depth IIRC. A bit of a no-no - it might hamper a fast fix for full LSB/MSB transmission.


#12

Since i have writting this post , i decided to put my atc -x away from my live machoines because of that and use it only in studio situation.
But now i want to use it again in a live context , and the problem i sstill there .
I don’t understand this MSB/LSB history .
tha atc-x has kind of randoming answer when i’m sending CC0 ou CC32 message . pretty strange…

Smokyfrog, what do you mean ? i don’t understand . What is IIRC ? what is no-no ?
What does "hamper " means ( sorry my native language is franch , not english )


#13

=

…, if I recall correctly. This practice does not conform to the MIDI specification, so if Elektron were to fix the Bank Select problem it would cause compatibility problems for existing OT projects.


#14

I have the same issue. I cannot control my Moog Sub 37 Bank Select from the Octatrack. And ever since I updated my DSI Tetra the bank select does not work flawlessly either due to MSB/LSB issues. Even when I try using CC 32 in combination with Octatrack’s standard Bank Select CC 0.

So if I’m correct there is no workaround for this? I think this is pretty essential for a midi-sequencer isn’t it? This is especially important for live use, but also for projects in the studio where my Octatrack is the master console and therefore I want to be able to save the right synth programs inside every project. :frowning:


#15

While trying to replicate my issue once more now my Tetra seems to do Bank select just fine when switching between patterns with different parts assigned. My guess is that I had both standard bank select filled in as well as a CC#32. Too bad the first note is not always triggered, but I guess this is because the Tetra first needs to switch bank/program before it triggers a new note, dropping the first one needed to play.

What I found out about the Sub37 is that I can only select bank 0, or bank 1. When bank 0 is selected I can choose program 0-128, which in the Sub is bank 1-8 and the 16 programs in each bank. When bank 1 is selected in the Sub37 banks 9-16 are selected. This is confusing at first, but I seem to get it now.

This CC MSB/LSB is confusing when each synth has it’s own protocol.


#16

I and other users of the Waldorf Pulse 2 are struggling with this problem as well: Switching programs on the pulse 2

What’s the protocol here? Submit a support ticket?


#17

I put in a support ticket and got nowhere. The workaround is to load the patches you need to use in one bank and then not worry about bank changes. I know … crappy work around.


#18

Here’s the response I got from my support ticket:

Thanks for the input. Will forward your request to the developers, and I personally agree that this would be a very useful feature. However I can’t give make any promises that this will be included in a future OS.


#19

Hello,

A workaround might be to use an ipad with midibridge app, then into midibridge you might be abble to remap your value to a suitable one for your other devices.
I havn’t got an Octatrack yet, but I think it should work…

Cheers


#20

Hey there

I’ve got Dave Smith gear too and as you might know, the OT doesn’t change the bank, it only changes the patch.

So I wanna try the thing with the cc32 command.

But: How do I change the cc number of one of the existing slots? And what do I do when I can change one to cc32? How do I send the bank?

Thanks for helping!