When I set the MIDI program change to bank 0 and program 0, it set my Moog Sub 37 to bank 9 program 1. This only happens when I turn on program change send on the Octatrack. I have program change receive on the Sub 37. I have no idea why it starts the indexing of program changes from halfway through the 16 banks.
Can you replicate it in a new project?
Can you change mappings on the Sub Phatty?
There are a few potential sources of misunderstanding here:
-
If you activate ‘PROG CH SEND’ in the OT’s PROJECT > MIDI > SYNC menu, the OT will send a Program Change message on the MIDI Channel that is also set in that menu whenever its pattern changes; this is irrespective of what you have programmed in the OT’s MIDI sequencer.
-
The OT’s Bank Select feature in its MIDI sequencer only uses one byte for Bank number (the MSB, CC 0), whereas the Sub 37 uses only the other byte (LSB, CC 32). (Bad Elektron!
Several people have raised this with Elektron but there is no sign of any fix to the OT.) -
Moog’s “banks” of sounds do not correspond to the MIDI definition of banks. (Bad Moog!
) If you read page 53 of the Sub 37 manual you will see that a Bank Select value of 0 will select Sub 37 sound banks 1 to 8 and a Bank Select value of 1 will select sound banks 9 to 16. You have to use an accompanying Program Change message to get the correct sound from each set of sound banks.
Several people have raised this with Elektron but there is no sign of any fix to the OT.)
) If you read page 53 of the Sub 37 manual you will see that a Bank Select value of 0 will select Sub 37 sound banks 1 to 8 and a Bank Select value of 1 will select sound banks 9 to 16. You have to use an accompanying Program Change message to get the correct sound from each set of sound banks.Options:
Switch the Sub 37 manually when you move from sound banks 1 to 8 to sound banks 9 to 16 or back, then use Program Change from the OT’s MIDI sequencer to select the Moog sound.
OR
Send MIDI CC 32 (value = 0 or 1) from the OT to select one of the two sets of sound banks, then use Program Change.
In either case, switch off ‘PROG CH SEND’ in the OT’s PROJECT > MIDI > SYNC menu unless you want OT pattern changes to control the sound change.
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It’s a Sub 37, and no!
Says you. I’m not falling for your tricks! 
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You can actually do a bank change with the Octa, but it’s a bit of a hassle. After some trying, I managed to nail it down so that it worked consistently. (This is with a Nord Drum 2.)
You activate the bank change by changing parts in Octa. Before doing the part change, at the end of the previous pattern, send CC0 & CC32 one after another (adjacent steps). CC32 specifies the Bank number. The program number of the new bank is determined in the MIDI options of the new pattern. So, bank is set with CC in the pattern changing from, and program is set in the MIDI options of the pattern changing to. They have to use separate parts.
More details here:
You need to send CC0=0 and CC32=Bank number-1 on MIDI channel 10 (Nord drum 2 default) in the pattern. So CC0=0 CC32=0, for example, means that when switching parts, Nord Drum will switch to bank 1, program x. The program number will be determined by the program number in the MIDI options for that pattern in the Octatrack. So the bank change will be determined in two different locations, when doing a part change in the Octa.
Source pattern’s CC32 will point to destination patterns bank number.
Destination pattern’s program number will point to program number.
You need to define both for the bank/program change to work.
Sorry for a rambling post, ask me details if you need!
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Thanks, been struggling with this myself, will try this tonight
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Sorry to rise this one from the grave but I have the same problem which seems to be unsolved as I see it. The Octatrack is not the issue here since I have the same problem when I try to do bank changes from Ableton. The Sub37 only switches between bank 1 and bank 9 and ignores the midi change command. bank 1 = bank 1, bank 2-128 = bank 9. I am sure to know how bank changes work, I perform them without trouble with my Virus from both the Ocatrack and Ableton. I´d be happy to solve this!
The Sub37’s banks are not organized in the same way as those on the Virus.
Use Program Change only to select any sound in the current half (either banks 1 to 8 or banks 9 to 16) of the Sub37’s sounds. You only need to use an extra message if you want to select a sound in the other half of the Sub37’s storage. In the latter case, use MIDI CC32 immediately before a Program Change message.
Bank Select from the OT will not have any useful effect on the Sub37.
For more information, read my previous post:
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Not sure it helps for Sub 37, but I found this way to send CC0, CC32, Prog Change in the right order.
New project
Set your Prog Change
Place a trig with CC1=CC0 and CC2=CC32
Set bank values
Microtiming = - 5/384
Done
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just coming across this issue. Octatrack must have addresses this. Now you can change banks with: SBNK = 0 / 1 (switches between the 2 “halfs” of the banks, 0-8, and 9-16 respectively)
PROG = 0-127 with each preset sequentially using 16 numbers
Now I can’t figure out how to stop it from triggering the program change…as I tweak the sound, it gets reset to the preset after the pattern completes…anyone run into this?
If you have activated PROG CH SEND in the PROJECT > MIDI > SYNC menu of the OT then it will send a Program Change message every time it changes pattern.
Confirmed, that stops changing the program…but the problem is that I would like to send program changes when switching a pattern. With PROG CH SEND set to off, I cannot send program changes at all. I’m looking for a ‘one-shot’ style program change that happens only at the start of a new pattern.
You have two choices for automation with the OT:
- send a Program Change every time the OT changes pattern using the setting in the Project menu,
or - set a Program Change into a MIDI sequencer track and save in a Part, so that a PC message is sent every time the OT changes to a pattern that is linked to a new Part.
The alternative is to send the messages manually using the applicable Data Entry knob.
You can’t expect to send Program Change messages to select a synth preset and not have it select a preset that undoes any tweaking you do on the synth. You might consider using the second automated method above and consider your synth preset to called up by the OT’s Part change.
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Cool, thanks for the tips. I think I’ve got my method figured out. Using banks for ‘songs’ and 4 PCs per song sounds fine. This appears to leave my tweaking intact.
I’m not seeing the option you speak of in the Project Menu, what are you seeing that I’m not?
I guess what I was really hoping for is the ability to send PC on a trig, so I can be even more specific about when they happen. Maybe V1.5 
There’s a 3rd way, which is to P-lock the Bank - Program changes on beat 1 of the pattern In that case, the PC will be sent once, at the start of the pattern, because the OT will not send the same CC’s twice in a row. So you can tweak your sound without the risk of the preset being recalled when the pattern loops. Drawback: you must remember this fact. I stopped using this because it has happened many times that I was working on a pattern, p-locked PC’s and CC’s, stopped the sequencer to start working on synth patches for a while, expecting that when I restart the sequencer (maybe an hour later, even more…) the synths change patches as expected, which didn’t happen because the OT had sent the CC’s already an hour earlier. This event totally disrupted my creative process because this triggered my troubleshooting mode. @nvisiblesound: if you think this is manageable for you, it’s your solution
PROG CH SEND in the PROJECT > MIDI > SYNC menu.
You cannot p-lock Program Change messages on the OT.
Yes sorry, you’re right, I do it on the Digitone, the OT indeed doesn’t allow for it
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