Behringer PRO-800

The Lounge Other Gear
#50

Man, if we all spent as much time jamming, writing and publishing music with our synths as we do decrying the morality of capitalistic/opportunistic companies & their obviously profit driven decisions…maybe we’d all be rich enough to own studios full of Jupiters, Oberheims, Synthis & CS-80s. No need for clones anymore. Instead the wheel continues to turn…

My opinion, no more valuable than anyone else’s.

EDIT: To stay on topic, love my colleague’s PolyD - would own one myself if he didn’t let me sample the ever-living hell out of it. This looks interesting but I’m happily waiting for their OB-X or CS-80 clones.

I’d even let the OB-X sit next to my OB-6 as a tribute, no shame in that. But god-forbid I post that picture here…they’d color me a fanatic.

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#51

Hey - who says it has to be either / or ? :sweat_smile: My 3rd album of the year is on general release today. Plenty of time to record new music & take a stance on ethical business practices. It’s about working smart, not hard… :rofl:
As for clones, I must confess I have bought one this year. But the Korg ARP 2600 FS is an ARP 2600 for 2020. In fact, it’s more a re-issue than a clone I guess, so I think that’s ok. :wink:

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#52

Except they aren’t, they are actually making copies (nothing inherently wrong in that, all other stuff aside) and using the reputation of the classic gear to add shine to their offerings, by closely copying the visual design, mentioning artists that used the originals, and other things like announcing on x0x days, they are seeking to ride the coat tails of legacy gear to add perceived value to their own copies.

The value of vintage gear isn’t just about the sound, and these sounds have been widely (mostly) available and affordable to everyone for at least a decade now.

What Behringer are doing is actually pretty effective marketing, no matter how questionable, because people like you are equating Behringer gear with the actual originals, as demonstrated by your comment quoted above.

But honestly if you are happy with your Behringer gear, and their business practices don’t bother you then that is one thing, thinking that you got a bunch of highly sought after vintage gear for a fraction of the price though is a mistake. You got exactly what you paid for, cheap Behringer copies.

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#53

Please, keep B-ranting into The Behringer era thread. :woozy_face:

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#54

I see people saying that the Behringer clones are near identical to the originals (including some pretty convincing comparison videos). I also hear people saying that the B clones are just cheap knockoffs that copy the front panel designs of rhe originals, but are not the same sonically. I’m not an electronics wizard. Does anybody have an informed opinion on how closely these Behringer clones copy the originals? I know that they are using the same chips, or at least “new” versions ofbthe original chips. What about other components?

#55

Hi Vidsis_Drkwlya — May i suggest you repost your post to the Clone War Behringer thread, and delete it from here. There is discussion related to what you post there.

Anyone wanting to respond to Vidsis_Drkwlya post please do so in that thread.

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#56

How about for this Pro-800? Does it use the same resistors, chips, etc as the original? They added two voices and likely some other stuff, did they have to cut corners or make modifications to accommodate that?

#57

we don’t know for sure. I mentioned up-thread the chips that are in the Pro One and Prophet 600 and the ones that we know Cool Audio (Behringer) have re-produced. not sure if they have started making other chips though…

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#58

Not known yet really — Nick Batt among others has speculated they are using Cool Audio (a Behringer company) sound chips. The parts for the most part are now surface mount, resistor values are not too relevant.

They are working with a developer Gli Gli, incorporating the improvements he pioneered.

ADDED: Safe to say they, are not using the same processor to handle MIDI and to control the device — way back when, the processors were working harder to handle the MIDI, and things like USB would be impossible, let alone downloadable firmware.

#59

Well I know that when Korg made the MS-20 mini, they went to great lengths to replicate the original as closely as possible, including the resistor values. If people want the exact same sound as the original, you probably have to do that. I know people who build guitar pedals and they can hear a difference between different types of styles of resistors in pedals that otherwise are designed exactly the same.

#60

They should have called it Galactic Sun. :stuck_out_tongue:

#61

but does it really matter - what if company X made said product originally with the current resistors, would it have made a difference

Th bottom line is Behringer aren’t competing with the real stuff, they’re offering products at a different market, either you can pay for the real thing or buy a clone- cloning happens all the time in the music world, but B do it quite some way more indiscreetly

I know this is PRO800 topic, but I can say without any fear of contradiction that the crave I’m rocking is magnificent (thanks 100% to Moog) but I was never going to be a Moog customer (wish I could, they look awesome) - but for me, whether a resistor is this or that is pointless noise, that crave sounds and works amazingly - the manual is a waste of paper, it’s not updated, support is not that quick - but I have no stigma about it

FWIW The Pro-1 sounds unbelievably nice, so I expect the PRO-800 will sound damn fine too, your main concern should be on the finesse of the details, the things that Moog get right, but I am happy with the crave (despite that filter), I find myself listening to it loop away in awe of the sublime sound presence plus the pro-1 is a dream - the resistors don’t matter, if you want to fix stuff better get an old bit of gear with through hole components

don’t be fooled that these aren’t well made, the crave is a little tank (unlike the pots/jacks on the MS mini which I still adore and would’ve picked every day over the B) - and I’ll say it again, the crave’s great credit to Moog - this is a fantastically conceived semi - this was the only way I’d ever get a taste, Moog didn’t lose my $s and I think that there’s a healthy market for folk wanting to support the originators

If you’re in the market for a Pro800, what are your options anyway, weigh up the pros-cons and focus on whether you like the sound, not whether it’s authentic or might be different with a different resistor type - that level of obsessing about $50 a meter speaker cable is for those who have enough spare income to indulge that infinitesimally small marginal gain

There’s been a bunch of flags on this topic, try to steer it in the right direction, but folk must be able to have natural conversations and a degree of give and take is necessary

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#62

Korg went through some lengths, but they did cut costs when they could - examples including the obvious (mini vs full size), use of SMT vs. through-hole, etc.

I don’t care about the SMT vs through-hole “which sounds better” debate. The Mini sounds damn good to me for the money. Durability seems to be the more relevant issue. I’ve no doubt the more expensive full-size MS-20 reissues will have longer lifespans than the Mini ones. When I finally saw the Dandy Warhols live in the early 2010s, Zia was still playing the same MS-20 that was used when they broke out in the 1990s.

Back to topic, I agree with Jukka and avantronica

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#64

To many it is actually just about the sound. To others, it may be about the logo on the panel. Neither is wrong, but these clones are for those who are after the sound.

#66

If it sounds good (i don’t care if it doesn’t sound like the p600) and has a good midi implementation, I’m probably buying it. 8 voices @ $600USD is a steal.

Its be nice if they gave it the Deepmind treatment though, with effects and all.

#67

Behringer’s strategy works because we buy their stuff. They wouldn’t keep doing copies if we didn’t keep buying them. Which we do. So lamenting Behringer’s moves is just us not facing up to the fact that we make it legit by approving through consuming.

I own no Behringer stuff but if they ever released something I really wanted, it’s likely I’d go for it.

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#68

The majority of people buying this probably haven’t ever heard the original though, I reckon this would sell well and maybe better if they’d just done something similar but their own design.

I personally wish that they’d leave the past behind and design new synths with new features not found on old gear… Things like presets or good midi implementation :sweat_smile:

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#69

I’m interested to see if the collaboration with GliGli has led to some further enhancements, stuff he couldn’t do within the limitations of the original hardware but is now possible.

If he’s had a hand in the firmware I can’t see it having the midi issues of some of the other clones so that’s got to be a positive! If they let him loose on the rest of their synths…well, I’m sure we’d all be happy

Edit. My assumption is he’s a he. If she’s a she then I do apologise.

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#70

Nick in the Sonic Talk discussion mentioned that one of his enhancements was stereo output, something he thought was not in this prototype.

Another idea I saw discussed elsewhere was the possibility of daisy chaining two units for 16 voices, though this seems almost overkill to me.

You’re right, having Behringer collaborate with various experts on their projects is good all round. They worked with Rob Keeble on their 2600 in a similar way, and there are others.

So if this is to be in production early 2021, that means there is still a little time for some small changes and improvements.

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#71

Can I ask why people seem disappointed at the lack of stereo outs? Did the 600 have the ability to stereo spread the voices, or is there another feature I’m not thinking of. My poly hardware synths either don’t have stereo outs or only take advantage of stereo while using their internal effects.