Can we talk about the irony that people that bashes Behringer are copying each others arguments?
(Not being serious. Let’s not do that).
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It’s because they continue with their unethical behaviour that people continue to call them out. The backlash is justified IMHO. Shrugging one’s shoulders and excusing them sends the message that’s it’s all OK.
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They can do whatever they want, the Universe is large and indifferent to the individual.
It’s easier to let evil consistently win than try and fight it.
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Just thought remarks about B’s business should come here, so I removed above posts from Goldeurorack Go discussion. 
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Let’s assume for the sake of argument that the case is somewhere in the region of £250 (that’s a complete guess since the price hasn’t yet been announced). Let’s also assume that someone wants to fully populate the 140hp case with the cheapest of Behringer’s current line up of eurorack-mountable synths, for example, four Model D units (why anyone would want to do that is beyond me).
By my calculations, that’ll make it:
5 x £250 = £1250
By eurorack standards that’s fairly cheap but I certainly wouldn’t describe it as modular for “poorer people”. That’s quite a luxury purchase. Even if one were to DIY all the modules, you’d still be looking at a significant investment to fill that space. We all know that empty gaps in a case are GAS inducing!
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I think this part’s kind of funny. There’s this perpetual argument that Behringer is super cheap. I remember hearing about the RD-08 being extremely but I’ve seen it for $400 here in the U.S. That’s pretty expensive for a single-kit drum machine in 2019. They are managing to get even lower however with whatever their Roland TB-303 clone is called.
Aaaaaaand we’re live again!
I was a bit heavy with the knife, maybe. Sorry for that. But so was the discussion…
There were a few interesting words that disappeared in this. Feel free to debate again. But this time, please, try not to talk one to one, it always ends badly. Heated is OK, but sterile flame wars with strangers on the internet… 
I think you can find better ways to loose your time.
If you don’t like it that your posts were deleted, don’t yell at me before you’ve read the guidelines 
Please, be constructive and friendly, it’s way better for everyone.
Let’s make this little corner of internet a nice place to have a chat. 
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don’t worry gonna change it soon…
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Behringer synthesizer users: How is the tuning stability? I only ask because Model D seems to have some serious tuning issues based on what I’ve watched/read. Granted, it’s one of the first synths they released. Have they improved things over their next releases? I’m primarily interested in the more recent offerings like the K-2, TD-3, Wasp.
Also, from my glancing over the manuals… am I missing something, or is there almost no MIDI CC implementation at all?
Thanks
Behringer Model D behaves pretty much like original Model D. It’s analog VCO synth and thus tuning isn’t as stable as in digital synths.
But mine did stay in tune just fine after it warmed up (sold it recently because I have Poly D on order). Also, only analog control of the knobs in Model D so MIDI is limited.
Btw, Wasp has digital oscillators so it should be very much in tune.
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I used to have a Boog … it stayed in tune fine as long as I kept it in original case. When I tried to rack it in an Intellijel 4U, the thing drifted all over the place, like someone put a Sloth or slow LFO on both oscillator pitches.
My Neutron doesn’t stay in tune as well as the Boog did but it’s nothing too serious. I haven’t tried to rack it outside the factory case so not sure if it has the same issue.
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Analog Synths should warm up a bit (15-30min) before used for recording etc.
the Neutron has a build in Tuner and the ability to Autotune the Oscillators (hold Range button till the led blinks) the oscillators are in perfect tune when restarting the synth after warm up.
if you don’t restart it’s definitely off but keep in mind that tuning an Analog synth is a common method just like tuning your guitar.
it’s part of the game, lol
I have no problem with clones of 40-year-old gear. Copyright laws are too heavy-handed as it is.
But stuff that’s newer and still in production is a different story. Mostly I just wonder, why? They don’t need to do copies at this point. It’s a great thing they’ve done creating those efficiencies of scale to make affordable products. They have the designers in-house now who can make good new products. Surely it would be more satisfying to bring out more DM12s, Neutrons, XRs, rather than copying obsolete products.
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IT is for someone just wanting to enter Eurorack…because who has $400 for just a case…I think Behringer is a great thing for the industry for access as well as curb market excesses and inflated or UNDEPRCIATING VALUES OF THE SAME OLD PRODUCTS for eternity…
Eventually…just like iPads and MACs…MOOG need to lower prices on things…oh wait they did…Mother / DFAM / Sub patty all down $100 in last 2 moths…I can now afford to get the MOOGS because of Behringer…
MARKET FORCES and CAPITALISM…beautiful things!
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nobody. But 4k for the modules you‘ll put in there
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I don’t think MOOG changes the prices of these products because of competition, it’s just the product cycle IMHO. Innovators and early adopters pay more, the laggards and late majority the least, but are also late to the freshness of the party/product
When MOOG announces that the last 1000 DFAM/M32 are in the making … watch those prices sky rocketing 
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To give Uli his due, I’m sure he WOULD LOVE to do more DM12s & Neutrons but seems like his customer base want more iconic clones. Didn’t the Crave just come out? Did anyone care? Personally, I’m still waiting for the UB-XA.
It’s safe to assume the market punished the Deepmind for not being a straight Juno clone & they’ve gone to some lengths to make sure the Poly D looks very much like a Model D even if they’ve added some bonuses in there. People wouldn’t be as excited if they had made the exact same synth & put it in a Deepmind chassis.
Personally, I think the Neutron is brilliant & they deserve a lot of credit for that. I understand why they’re cashing in on the Model D nostalgia though.
Behringer is catering to the market … that’s why it’s hard to just say Behringer = evil. They’ll do whatever we reward them for. I don’t know what’s cool to talk about & don’t want the mods to machete my post so I’ll just leave it there.
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After years of resistance, I’ve come to realize Behringer is serving a much needed space in the market.
Soon You will be able to own a Minimoog, MS-20, Pro One, TB-303, SH-101, OB-XA, Wasp, probably EMS stuff, the OSCar, PPG Wave, and many more… A full vintage studio, without vintage maintenance, with modern connectivity, no ridiculous vintage prices.
Original Pro One: $1700-$2700 right now on reverb. Think about that, and Behringer’s value starts to sink in.
And you’re right, their own original creations are pretty cool. Hopefully we will see more of them.
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With the budget modules that are available already from Doepfer + the one’s coming from Behringer/Dreadbox/ports to eurorack from AE Modular and more to come … it looks like an expanded hardware (semi) modular setup will be within reach of many more folks who don’t want or can spend 4K on a system to play around just for the fun of it. (No releases, no gigging).
I am also in that boat. I don’t want to spend so much, I am an amateur with limited dedicated time. I already have a M32/DFAM combo and I send gates to my Lyra-8. I’ve experimented with a hybrid setup sending also cv and gates from VCV rack, that works fine and was a nice experiment but the on screen workflow is too cluttered for me, real knobs FTW.
I also think the “little” eurorack companies do not have to worry that much about folks getting their feet wet with Behringer modules to start out, they will get a piece of the pie eventually. It’s still eurocrack!
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This might be true, I don’t know. Was the DM12 really a poor seller? Would be interesting to know. Obviously the Boog has sold well, but that was groundbreaking (in a market sense, not technically of course). I can’t see Boog-level enthusiasm and sales for future clones.