AR Bugs thread

Whoever wants it to be fixed should open a ticket by him/herself. Even if it is already on their radar, more tickets makes is more prominent.

(reasoning: why should they fix something when all but one are okay with it?)

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agreed…
I must admit – i’m pretty puzzled that this bug seems to be around since… ever? Considering this is the only way to achieve any sort of (ongoing) polymeter.

A year in Elektron terms is nowhere near forever. I can vividly remember Cenk saying in a video Overbridge will be released “soon” and that was some years ago. I guess clocks are ticking differently in the nordish countries … :wink: :smile:

Yeah, there you can feel that the do not really care about the products or us - just the marketing and selling of more new stuff. Well, unfortunately not the only ones, huh?

There are many quite important bugs for years. That is why I posted this (you could support):

But I suspect more and more that the reason is to hide the bugs they never adressed…
Like also this:

So I will start a thread with collecting bugs just to make some pressure. Lets see, if really nobody told them about those before, as they often state. :smiley:

PS: I also opened a ticket for this bug. If you could do the same for the LFO to Accent (Velocity) bug posted above, that would be great.

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ok, ticket submitted!

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I’ve received a (appreciably prompt, but unsatisfactory) reply from Elektron on this bug:

This is actually not a bug, it is the intended behavior. However, there are different opinions on how this should work here at Elektron HQ […]

If you manually go to the next pattern in the chain and select it (chain button, arrow keys, yes) it takes the change parameter into account. When a pattern has an infinite master length the pattern will play indefinitely unless there is some user action and this is by design.

After having pointed out, that this conflicts with what the manual states (Section 11.10.2: “However, if CHNG, for instance, is set to 64, the pattern will behave like a pattern consisting of 64 steps regarding cueing and chaining.”), i was told the following:

Yes it seems like the manual is incorrect and I’ll talk to our technical writer about this […]

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Hi, I also received a very kind but unsatisfactory answer:

Thanks for the report. If a pattern in a chain or song has length set to INF, some user action is needed before the CHNG parameter comes into effect (i.e. manually selecting the next pattern in the chain). This is by design but I will discuss this with out developers.

(my consideration) It is assumed that one creates a chain to create automatisms that avoid having to manually select the patterns and that the CHNG parameter is there to replace LEN set on INF to define when the next pattern in chain should be activated, as a user I think this is the right operation, otherwise there could only be the LEN parameter and no need for a CHNG.

Having also pointed out what the manual reported, I was answered:

I’m sure this is how it has been designed, and the manual is not accurate on this. I have discussed this with our developers many times over the last year but will report again since apparently many users considers it to be wrong. However, I can’t promise that it will be changed unfortunately. It is not considered a bug.

it is also possible that LEN and CHNG actually work this way, i.e. set LEN to 64 but CHNG to 16 so if the chain is active the x pattern lasts 16 and then changes and if there is no active chain instead it lasts 64

The real problem is that CHNG does not work in any case! I have the rytm in front of me, I just tried this: pattern A1 LEN 64, CHNG 16, pattern A2 LEN 16, CHNG OFF. With the chain mode activated, the pattern A1 play 64 and then changes, therefore the CHNG parameter does not work precisely because after 16 the A2 pattern should have been activated, and this will report it immediately

Ok, definitely tried various LEN and CHNG settings with manual pattern changes to refer to some user action needed no chain active, and standard pattern mode (sequential).

Pattern A1 LEN 64 CHNG 32
Pattern A2 LEN 16 CHNG OFF
If I switch to pattern A2 manually before 32th step of A1 is reached, then CHNG has priority over LEN and the pattern changes to the 2nd bar and not the 4th.

Pattern A1 LEN INF CHNG 32
Pattern A2 LEN 16 CHNG OFF
like before if I change manually by step 32 it goes to pattern A2

Pattern A1 LEN 64 CHNG 128
Pattern A2 LEN 16 CHNG OFF
with these settings the pattern change always takes place after 64 and never 128, so when CHNG is greater than LEN, LEN takes precedence

Pattern A1 LEN 256 CHNG 32
Pattern A2 LEN 16 CHNG OFF
if left to go, the pattern lasts 256 steps but if I change to pattern A2 within the second beat the change is made. However regardless of which 2nd beat it is! That can be at step 32, 96, 160 or 224 based on when we press to change pattern

so all in all an unclear operation for me, incorrectly explained by the manual and that would only make sense applied to the chains

if this is indeed incorrectly explained in the manual, then it’d be good to page @eangman

that’s why CHNG was here or at least that’s what I always believed from the first moment I had the rytm.

Yeah I know this, and I have no problem with single/global track length and chains at all or to change manually when play a INF pattern but then what the CHNG parameter is for?!

I have i.e. pattern A1 with LEN 64 and CHNG 32 if I change to A2 immediately after A1 started at step 32 goes to pattern A2, if I press the pattern change at step 1 of bar 3:4 (step 33) in any case the pattern changes when 4:4 ends. So I believe that CHNG should only interact when chain is active

I believe that the manual perfectly explains how both LEN and CHNG should work. So it makes perfect sense, using the CHNG parameter in case LEN is on INF and need to change patterns automatically, with chain mode active to break INF. What do you think about it?

I think this is absolutely correct. INF should allow for endless polyrhythmic and conditional variation and CHNG should allow you to constrain this behavior via your manually applied or chained pattern changes. At least that’s what the manual says, and intuitively what I’ve always thought was intended. It definitely seems broken in its current state.

This architecture exists on other Elektron boxes. Can someone check to see if the INF/CHNG while chaining relationship works as expected on another machine? (Sorry, not at my studio right now)

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This seemed to be working before OS 1.45 on MKI as per the following: ttps://www.elektronauts.com/t/analog-rytm-os-1-45-bug-discussion/58785/143

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I tested and posted about the behavior using official non beta OS 1.31B released 2 1/2 years ago…

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I got a new answer from support:

I’m sorry, I actually thought it worked in chains and songs when the master length is not set to INF but I stand corrected. The CHNG parameter actually doesn’t have effect in chains and songs at all and the pattern will always progress due to the master length being reached. From what I can see this is not considered a bug either but I will try to find out more.

Could you describe the situations where you can’t have a defined length where a pattern will change in a song or chain? What are the reasons for not wanting that? I believe these are the questions that needs to be answered to convince our developers. Note that a pattern is restarted when changed to.

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My answer:

A situation may be to have 4 patterns of 64 steps with LEN = 64 and CHNG = X (8-5-13-6) in order to create chains with patterns of different durations and then the ability to return to the original length when the chain is deactivated.

If anyone else wanted to participate, it would be a great help to get this malfunction resolved. Thank you

To me the big one is polymeter, where you have tracks of different lengths running against each other. You want the pattern to be able to evolve so you use a very long master length. You would use the chng parameter so you are able to switch patterns without waiting for the entire thing to cycle…

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Great Open_Mike!
I immediately suggested to support your wonderful point of view about it.
Thank you!

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got new answer:

Thanks for providing use cases! I will forward them to our developers. I think the ability to return to the original length (INF) for patterns with polymeter when the chain is deactivated is reasonable. A workaround for both use cases would be to copy/paste those patterns and set a defined master length for the copies (same that you would set for CHNG if that worked) for using them in chains or songs. However, that doesn’t seem like an optimal solution. Let me know if you notice more use cases!

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Never mind… :grin: