i agree with what you are saying about instant pc ,
but im talking about a separate issue,
when you send a pc from the octatrack to the analog rytm cued up early before end of the pattern to do a pattern change as its designed to do,
if the rytm is in advanced mode,and your pattern length is set to 128, 256 or INF or anything other than the exact CHNG length the CHNG setting doesnt work properly, the pattern changes late!
seems to a bug or something with the CHNG setting when receiving PC…
ive looked further and CHNG didnt work at all in previous OS
I understand what you mean. Unfortunately the current workaround is using a midi processor.
im honestly pretty surprised one of the main elements of the elektron sequencer doesnt work when linked to other elektron gear, they can work stand alone correctly but cant change patterns chained together using all the cool polyrhythm stuff properly…
funny thing is, it does work when you change patterns via overbridge channel 16
Chng in advanced mode not only doesn’t work with external PC but doesn’t work in chains or song mode. The parameter only seems to function when using sequential change manually on the machine.
(I’m on an old OS but I’ve heard nothing saying it’s any different currently)
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Do you know if this Is how it always has been or is it a bug?
My workaround is to use the overbridge plugin channel 16 and use the lowest notes to have them change at the same time and then you can use this feature like inf settings and it works.
I guess because it’s not a pc message… But I would like to do it without the computer
It’s always been like this at least since 1.31B when I tested. I’ve always considered it a bug but after reading the discussion I’ll link below that includes responses from support I’ve been meaning to give it some more thought and decide again. I do think chng should work from external PC but am now unsure about how I feel about chains and songs and haven’t taken the time to thoroughly think it over.
It has the same behaviour on all there gear, it works properly when changing patterns by hand,
So why shouldn’t it work the same from pc or chains/songs…
At the moment it is Changing but late from pc so that certainly isn’t by design.
Definitely a bug
unfortunately i have had an identical merry-go-round conversation with support. same thing down to the T. first an intern giving copy pasted replies about very rudimentary things (tech support equivalent of “did you turn it off and back on again”), then got handed off to someone more knowledgeable, who was disappointingly evasive about the issue, until finally admitting that this was a known problem and that there was internal conflict about how to address it (“i will ask the engineers again if they would consider changing it”), and concluding with the manual reference. when i pointed out the machine does not behave as described in the manual i was told “oops we should take that out of the manual.” frustrating, because the way the CHNG function is described in the manual would be a perfectly intuitive function. i hope with the increasing frequency of support tickets they will finally do something about it.
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I’ve messaged support getting similar story, don’t think it’s going to change or maybe can’t be changed it’s the same on every elektron. So if using inf settings just have to change by hand on each device or use overbridge and channel 16 the Chng value works via overbridge.
It certainly doesn’t work correctly when using pc messages, and works just fine without.
So no point dwelling on it I guess just have to work around the limitation unfortunately
So I just bought a rytm. Wanted to control the patterns via Program Change with my Squarp Pyramid. Apparently this is not possible without the aforementioned delay, right? Just wanted to double check before I send it back, because this is an absolute dealbreaker for me.
Thanks for your answers!
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Makes you wonder why they include midi features on their devices, DT/DK exactly the same, can do p-locks with its own internal stuff but program changes with external gear is piss poor, and it’s 2020 you’d think it’d be easy to do.
Tried p-locking program change first beat of new pattern but doesn’t pick up until the second beat, FAIL 
Midi cc program change simply doesn’t work unless you send it in a previous pattern before it changes but that’s not only a pain but no good for live… Works fine if all you use is elektron gear otherwise waste of time, again this is 2020 not rocket science or is it? 
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What a shame… also the manual is misleading in this regard. I am kind of pissed to be honest, will send it back even though I like the rytm overall but can’t work with it like that. Thanks for your quick response!
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However I can say that if your working with Elektron gear only then the Rytm is fantastic…
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Yeah, I totally believe that. But I am trying to integrate it in a larger system comprising different synths and modular gear, all sequenced by the pyramid. So apparently the rytm is just not the right choice for me…
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I initially wanted to use my elektrons to sequence my gear however I’ve concluded that the MPC X is my hub for that… p-locks and the sound of the Digitone is the only reason I keep it other than that midi program change sucks compared to Akai 
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Yep, I’m feeling this pain right now, sold my OT, still got 3 Elektron boxes but using MPC ONE as master, and it really kills positive vibes towards Elektron. They should make it a top priority to fix this across all machines as many people will be moving to the ONE or Live as a DAW replacement and it’s a very negative experience compared to all other gear I own.
On the analog machines If you use the MPC program change box it causes them to double strike the first step so it always a step behind when using Play Start. I think it’s pretty shocking in 2020 this is still an issue across every machine… the age of this thread and silence is embarrassing.
Apart from that I love the Elektrons, but there is a lot of competition now that can handle pattern changes, they no longer dominate the market as much as a few years ago and it should worry them I think. When it comes down to it the Akai is the winner of this problem.
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Hello Everyone, I’ve read up all that I can on this topic on this forum as well as the Squarp forum, but still have a couple of questions on Pyramid program change timing issue:
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Does the issue primarily manifest itself when the pattern is sequenced on the Elektron device, but receiving master clock (and program change message) from the Pyramid?
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If yes, is a potential workaround just to sequence on the Pyramid instead? I am not suggesting that as the solution as I appreciate the power of the Elektron sequencer - I am just trying to understand if there’s any easy workarounds as I am considering the Pyramid as my master sequencer (vs my Digitone).
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I assume that even if a workaround is to sequence on the Pyramid, that the program change lag may still be an issue. For instance, if I send a program change from A1 to A2 on the Digitone (to access a different set of sounds on the 4 internal tracks), even though the note data is being sent from the Pyramid, based on what I’ve read here, I assume that there could be delay in the Digitone switching patterns and the wrong sounds might play for the first bar? Has anyone experienced this?
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For those working DAW-less AND heavily invested in Elektron devices, what are you using to sequence non-Elektron gear? (assuming that you need more MIDI tracks than the device offers - e.g. more than the 4 MIDI tracks that Digitone offers) The Cirklon 2 seems awesome, but is so expensive.
I am looking for at least 8 tracks of MIDI sequencing and realize that Octatrack and Digitakt are options, which would sidestep the program change issue completely if I stay inside the Elektron universe, but are overkill if I’m mostly interested in sequencing capabilities.
No. Elektron devices always needs to receive a program (=pattern) change early. If they receive a program change too late (== when the next loop has already started), the minimum delay is 2 steps (with CHANGE LENGTH=2).
Sequencing from external doesn’t change this behavior. If you want to switch to a different pattern for different sounds with a program change, you’ll need to send the PC early.
But on some Elektron devices like the Digitone or the A4 you can use the multi map feature to change patterns just in time by sending notes to the device (instead of PC messages).
Your question is a little ambiguous, but yes.
That may solve some of the problems (but see your next question).
Another workaround is to use the Multi Map feature (that some Elektron gear provides) instead of the Program Change message method.
If you wanted to work this way then this could be a problem; hence the utility of the Digitone’s Multi Map feature.
I imagine that most people would use an Elektron instrument as their primary sequencer. If a different sequencer is needed, it could easily receive Program Change messages from the Elektron.
Perhaps not so much overkill as just very different machine to a Pyramid. You need to consider what style of sequencing you want to perform, beyond the mere track count.
@tnussb and @peterhanes - thank you both for your very thoughtful responses. I hadn’t considered the multi-map feature of the A4 and Digitone as workarounds.
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