RYTM Compressor Threshold - Confused

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

Hi,
I’ve read around the forum to try to find something to enlighten me in regards to my confusion, but I couldn’t find anything.

My confusion is caused by the threshold on the compressor of the RYTM when I have the compressor mix set to 100%.

At this setting and the threshold untouched (in theory, not low enough for the compressor to become engaged) the output signal is still reduced?

I thought this may be because the signal going into the compressor is too high already and thus engaging the compressor even though the threshold is at max. However, lowering the input signal considerably still doesn’t stop the signal from being reduced when setting mix to 100%.

I’m thinking that the threshold being so sensitive would make the workings of the attack and release on the compressor pretty redundant. Therefore, there must be something else going on surely?

Is the signal reduced simply by running it through that pathway regardless of the engagement of the compressor? My understanding is that gain reduction would only take place on signals above threshold.

I’m confused.

Any clarity on this would be great.

Cheers all.

New to AR MK2: Help to understand how the compressor works
#2

Isn t it just the make up gain (MUP) that’s lowering your signal? That’s active regardless of the compressor being triggered.

#3

Cheers for your reply @dtr, I thought that you would only apply make up gain to compensate for the reduction in level caused by the compressor being triggered. Surely this only comes into place once a signal has broken through the threshold?

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#4

Yeah that’s right. Or it is in every other compressor, it’s just a gain knob placed after the compression circuit.

How are you monitoring what’s going in? Are you sure there’s no sub bass you cant hear triggering it?

#5

Which version of the Rytm are you rocking? AFAIK only the MKI has a gain reduction meter on the right, and it can get triggered pretty easily if you’ve got the master distortion turned up.

#7

Try it out if you don t believe me :wink:

#8

Oh, it’s not that I doubt your advice. It’s that I think that “make up” need only to be applied when gain reduction has occurred.
I know it will add volume regardless, my query is why is there any reduction taking place. Does that make sense? :thinking::grin:

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#9

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#10

These aren’t in quite the right order. With 100% mix applied I’m losing about 10db.

#11

MK2. No bar at the side.

#12

Hi, I think you need to raise VOL to 127 to have the 100% wet signal at the same level as the dry signal. Edit: not 100% shure, though… I also hear gain reduction with THR at 127.

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#13

Cheers @ccr.

I’ll take a look at that idea. When I’ve had the volume at 127 previously I’ve had to reduce is due to the noise that could be heard due to the analogue nature of the machine.

#14

I agree, the loss of gain is not related to VOL… sorry…

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#15

You might want to check other ratios. Sometimes other ratios also have different baked in knee levels (harder or softer). This could also be affecting the threshold. If it’s very soft, it may be triggering very low.

Any more insight into this?

#16

I’ve always cranked the VOL to max and blended in a mix from there, usually around 60-100% wet. I find it so strange they haven’t got the GR meter on the MKII, it’s so crucial in finding those pumping sweet spots!

1 Like
#17

I’m going to contact Elektron directly I think. I’m still not sure sure why this happens.

I’ll post any response back into this thread.

4 Likes
#18

I’m looking forward to hearing the answer.

My guess is that it’s just how analog circuits work. Although the threshold has a top end level, the output has a higher level and can handle a lot. You simply need to lower your levels so you can give the threshold some breathing room.

#19

Okay - prompt reply from Elektron

If you read from the bottom up it’ll be in the order of the emails that were sent between us:

Exactly, that’s definitely possible.

Best regards,
Daniel

Oh, that’s something new to me.

So the make up gain can deduct from the input signal?

That’s correct, but it’s also possible to apply negative makeup gain leading to lower amplitude. This is quite possibly what’s happening here.

Hi,
Thanks for the quick response.

My understanding of compressors is that the reduction in gain only takes place if the input signal exceeds the threshold. If the threshold is at maximum they’re shouldn’t be any gain reduction surely? However, in losing about 10db by moving the mix value to 100% even though the threshold is at max.

Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Adam

Hi,

The output amplitude from the compressor isn’t just affected by the gain reduction of the compressor but also by the makeup gain setting. This could explain the behaviour you describe.

Best regards,
Daniel

So it seems the make up gain can actually reduce the input signal even when compression isn’t taking place.

So, I am going to amend my practice to set the apply enough make up gain to the signal after I’ve set the mix to 100% but before I bring the threshold down. In my mind, by doing so, i’ll be working from a point equal to what the machine was doing without sending audio to the compressor. Then, from that point, the effects of the compressor will be fully appreciated by starting from a more neutral position.

Does that make sense?

@dtr - your advice was right! I just needed to know why it was necessary to do it! :slight_smile:

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#20

I was just wondering about MUP possibly going negative at the minimum settings…

1 Like
#21

I’ve never thought for a moment about make up gain going negative!
Cheers for your help.

1 Like