Push 2 vs. Elektron gear

The Lounge Other Gear
#61

From my experience the OT is not as “complex” (in the sense of complicated) as accounted for …

It’s just a question of taking some time to get acquainted with the various features. Nobody, I think, needs all of them directly after unboxing. The same is true for a software like Ableton.

Setting up the OT with other hardware is quite straight forward. As in a DAW you will find configuration menus, you have to set general and specific midi and audio settings, hook up your gear, check it, and go ahead … well, if its not the first time you do this, it should not take too much time. The settings can be saved too.

#62

It sounds logical, just use discipline.
So on that note, which VST synth are you gonna use?
Oh your gonna choose two? Which too? Are you sure?
Some delay and reverb? Sends or inserts or both? Which reverb?
Template starting to max CPU? What are you going to sacrifice?
Why not just start over? Maybe I need to buy zebra I heard good things.
Still not sure if I like saturation or distortion? Which 5 kicks and snares are my favorites, scratch that, which 10, scratch that I’ll make sample chains and commit to 32 kicks. Maybe I should try bigwig, no fuck it I’ll just use reaktor.
And so on, and so on, and so on

With hardware it only does what it comes with.
So yes, you have some room to get lost with the OT, but it’s a much smaller room.
More so with the AR and A4.
Dramatically more so with something like a Nyborg.

Personally I can no longer justify buying a controller like push, which happens to do all this stuff with a control surface script and ableton.

In 3 years I still want to be getting my monies worth.

#63

I’m sure there’s a post on the Ableton forums from years back where I’m asking why anyone would want an OT when you can do all that and more with ableton and a controller.
When I did finally get an OT, I had that “should have done this sooner” moment.

#64

Hehe. I hear you, your argument is a good one.

But - I’ve just been doing the tango with hardware for quite a bit now. You can keep swapping stuff for other stuff for relatively little, as long as you are smart with it. So the “infinite possibilities” trap exists with hardware, too.

FWIW, my plan is to use the stuff that comes with Live Suite - I have no pirated stuff and I’ve never bought a vst, with the exception of one Valhalla reverb, so my palette is limited in that sense. The stock ableton plugins are amazing, to me.

I think that the argument someone made for self-discipline is also very good - I have recently been failing in that area - but in the hardware realm :slight_smile:

#65

Thing is, you can swap out the hardware you bought for decades to come.
In 3 years nobody’s gonna want a push 2, and it might not be comparable with Live 12

#66

Ha. This is a good point.

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Lack of self-discipline when mostly software-based, meh, so I’m slightly less productive or have some small anxiety over endless options. At the end of the day, who really cares?

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But… lack of discipline with buying hardware can get ugly fast. I’m not in debt or anything, but let’s just say I’ve bought way more hardware the past few years than I ever originally intended to do. Still haven’t thinned out, only replaced things with other things.

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Some people really do get in trouble buying hardware… cough-eurorack-cough.

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Pros and cons to everything. No denying that.

#67

is there any discussion about PUSH 2’s or LIVE 9.5’s ability to engage/control the PLUGINS for the AR, AK, AF?

to me, this is really interesting.

hardware that is engageable LIKE software.

software engaged creation - arranging - editing…

hardware driven performance.

#69

for me Push 2 could make my Octatrack obsolete. Seems like it can do lots of the things I like about the OT

  • controlling external synths, sending notes and MIDI CC
  • p-locks
  • finally proper sampling with the simpler
  • better FX and integrity of course

but:

  • a simpler only has one LFO
  • the simpler has only “transpose”, the OT “pitch” and “rate”, which I find very convincing both together.
    please correct me if Im wrong here. It would be great if the simpler could do timestrechting with independent pitch
#70

After watching the Push 2 demo video and then poking around the Ableton website, I had the very same thought.
[/quote]
given Abletons upgrade cycle of Live, possibly optimistic to be on 12 in 3 years :wink:
but its a fair point, but one that can also be said for hardware too,
if Elektron release an OT 2 tomorrow with overbridge, colour hi-res display, etc I think we can assume the demand for the OT 1 will drop.
(and not all synths/grooveboxes become ‘classics’)

and computers/software are no more subject to ‘stop working’ when new versions are brought out (you are not forced to upgrade) anymore than your OT1 will stop working when OT2 is released.

I do agree though, this constant upgrade/improvement does feel like your on a hamster wheel at times…
unfortunately I think thats as much about modern consumerism, and hardware is not immune to this :frowning:

#71

I’m finding the new Push to be more of a threat to my MPC1000 w/ JJOS than to any of my Elektron gear. Strongly considering selling the MPC to fund a Push, and almost all of my rack gear to buy an AK, in part due to the integration via Overbridge.

#72

With me having zero chuffing luck moving my Elektrons on it looks like I will be joining the Push 2 w/ Elektrons brigade soon enough!

Annoyingly Im starting to warm to that idea too… uh oh…

#74

Without a computer, a Push 2 does nothing correct?
Seems the launchpad pro is the better choice, surly someone will make a push 2 emulation.
Add a cheap knob/fader control and use the laptop screen if you need a visual.

#75

If elektron made an OT2 surly I would want one and for a time the OT would drop in price. Yet 5 10 years down the line the OT will still hold good value, and perform as expected with out any other gear.

#76

Push2’s nice with the new screen and VST capability, etc, but it’s not that much different from Push. I agree regarding the value of controllers - in a few years it’ll be worth less than half it’s MSRP, since Able10 will come out with the new Push Studio controller, or something like that.

#77

I mostly love OT, but with some persistent occasional loathing :wink: I think it’s funny reading this thread. So much computer hate! Seems obvious hardware does a lot, has potential to be limited or too many options and can possibly fuck up and stop working. And Computers do a lot, have potential to be limited or too many options and can possibly fuck up and stop working. I will say hardware is generally more fun and when talking about analog vs digital synths and fx/tape/amps etc there’s usually no contest, but i see very little difference between hardware and software when it comes to something built specifically for softwae like push + ableton compared to something that is basically a self contained software/controller unit like OT. Though OT does feel more self contained with no need for an audio interface etc. But then again ableton gives the advantage of having separate stems there ITB for final mixing and a million other possible benefits in mixing. Decided I’ll keep OT but get push 2 some time next year. They’re both great and agree with those saying it shouldn’t be a ‘vs’ thing.

#78

Some discussion in this ableton forum thread…
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=218125

#79

IF, big IF, you have max4live, then you also have access to the devices like LFO which you can assign to anything.
I’m not a big sample user, and no Live expert, but there have been improvements to warping in simpler, there are various warp modes, etc. and look out for various max4live devices which you might be able to put together in a rack that might accomplish what you want. Maybe? I dunno.

#80

Same here. Can’t seem to sell the A4. (It has that old first batch paint chip issue. Tiny specks, but still. With so many mint ones out there, why would anybody want one with some paint missing?)
A4 + AR + Push 2 / Ableton / OverBridge
Pretty damn powerful setup.

Lots of moving pieces to these decisions. It’s all about personal situations, space, money, time, pro vs am, etc. Besides, it’s kinda fun sometimes to think about these things - streamlining and optimizing workflows. I’ve enjoyed this discussion very much. Very nice to hear other’s thoughts on the subject. Cheers, All.

#81

I’m using my OT to mainly sequence my synths (Microwave2, AlphaJuno1 and Reface DX) and samplers/drummachines (S900, Volca Beats) and often don’t even consider to use the internal tracks of the OT.
That’s the point were the OT feels really limiting, but not in a good way like a hardware-based studio for me does. 8 MIDI tracks and poor note-editing possibilites have me considering selling my OT and going for Push2, altough I don’t like using DAWs.
Does anyone here have experience with using Live as a MIDI sequencer only?
Would you recommend it, if I don’t want to use any VSTs or build-in audio-generating devices? Like I said, I only need a good and flexible MIDI sequencer. (I know the Squarp Pyramid, feels too limiting for me).

#82

I kinda view the Push 2 as (thanks to a computer for a brain) an MM + OT, all wrapped up into one.
With Live you have many different machine options (synths, fx, etc), just like MM, but also the ability to record/loop/mangle on the fly like OT. Push 2 gives the computer screen free interface that I love from Elektron machines.

I’m not that into using Overbridge as a GUI for the Analog machines. So, I’m thinking Push 2 nestled between my AR + A4 running in Overbridge mode, with my Mac’s screen off will give me the best of all the worlds for jams.
With the screen switched on, as long as Push 2 can navigate Reaktor 6 comfortably enough, happiness awaits.