Push 2 vs. Elektron gear

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Hi!

I have the Dark Trinity, along with a couple of FX boxes.

Now the availability of Push 2, along with my upcoming need for space at home, has me wondering about how the Trinity fares against Push 2.

I’ve owned Push 1 in the past, running in tandem with the Elektrons, but it didn’t make sense for me at all, as the Trinity is for me about getting rid of the computer and embracing the Elektron sequencers. But Push 2, with its new sampling features and all that, has me wondering about using it standalone as opposed to having the three Elektrons.

For me, getting away from the computer is a biggie, but it seems like the latest controllers are starting to fulfill the promises of getting ‘mouseless’ workflows.

I’m not that big of a believer when it comes to the argument that the Elektrons have a sound that’s unachievable in the box.

Any opinions on the matter? I’d love a good discussion on this :slight_smile:

Maschine or Live + Push 2? Or OT?
#2

I was in the process of stripping things back hugely from my hybrid set up. I had heard whispers of Push 2 but when announced at 8am (UK time) I put my order in within about 5 minutes. I’m selling the rest.

Everyone is different but on Sat night I sat down to do music. Spent 2 hours bumbling away on my gear getting nowehere so switched over to Live & Push and everything went great. More fun, less stress, better ideas. It’s just the place I’m in right now.

So can it do it all? No. I think it would still be great to have Push 2 + some hardware for sure but does it help to keep things powerfully simple? Almost certainly if Push 1 is anything to go by.

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#3

Well I just Sold my Octatrack before I knew about Push 2, I am mainly a FL guy who got into hardware and am now going back to having a computer attached.

Just bought the NI Kontrol S88 a wonderful keyboard!

#4

Push 2 seems a good potential replacement for the OT at least, potentially. I think I’ll always keep one box that is analog and has plocks though, as it’s so hard to emulate in software.

This comes at a bad time for me personally, been meaning to sell my Push for ages and the 2 dropped with no warning, probably going to get very little money for it now. Tradein value is only £150…

Also, can we talk about how amazing it is that Simpler is FINALLY getting time stretch? I’m beyond delighted.

#5

In combo with something portable like a Surface Pro or even a Mac Mini, would be a good ITB option.

#6

I never really looked at Simpler/Sampler when using Live so looking forward to learning Simpler with Push 2.
As for value - yeah there will be a bit of a Push crash but I was still getting a lot of interest for my Push @£200. Admittedly that is still on the bargain end of things. But then I got my Push at a discount a while back so not miffed at all at that.

#7

If I move my gear on then this is what I’m seriously considering. Surface Pro 4 with Push 2. Not sure if Push 2 can be USB powered though like Push could.

#8

If I move my gear on then this is what I’m seriously considering. Surface Pro 4 with Push 2. Not sure if Push 2 can be USB powered though like Push could.[/quote]
No, it needs a power adapter connected. Apparently it will not stop operating without the adapter, but the display and the lights are practically black.

#9

I think this ( like many ) instrument/interface can be fantastic if U can use it, personnaly I prefer rather fixed interfaces so my muscular memory gets it inside and I don’t have to think anymore. but that’s just me.
On the other side > You can forget a computer will give you thesame thing as real analogs. I don’t know for the future ofcoarse but the best proof that’ it’s not gonna happen anytime soon is the fact that alot of new analogs are being build. If virtual analogs could do the job there would be no reason to build the real. I’ve been working with analog and otrher synthesis and no matter how fantastic some ( like the UHE’s whome I really admire ) are - they can’t touch the real thing .
I’m not saying that fantastic sounds can’t be made digital. - it’s another universe. That’s the reason some movie -makers or photographers returned to analog, it’s another medium with different laws, tricks and caracter. Wanna make an oïl-painting ? Buy oïl-paint . Wanna do Photoshop ? Buy a computer. No matter how close and how many filters etc… you will never make you an oïl-painting with a computer.
I really like some digital synths out-there but I don’t have the illusion that they can replace my analogs.

#10

For me, the whole point of Elektron gear and their cousins is that you don’t need or want the computer for your music making.

And I think it’s cute that Ableton acknowledges this by doing their best to hide the computer in every movie they’ve made with this new iteration of their favourite controller.

Even so, for all of those who prefer the hybrid approach, this certainly seems like a very attractive option.

#11

Im wondering the same thing.

I have an OT/A4 combo. im sometimes wondering if I should keep the OT. I love it because it makes it possible to make music without a computer. But at the same time Im often feeling limited by it, and I have a couple of grip with its workflow.

But on the the other hand, i cant imagine making music with a computer anymore (since I work everyday on a computer !!). So i wonder to what extent push can be used without looking at all at the computer screen ???

Would it be possible to setup a computer that would run live automaticaly on startup and disconnect its screen completely ?

#12

I think these decisions are never easy and depend on where you fall on a spectrum of needs, budget, goals, etc.

For myself, as I move towards downsizing and minimalism in a lot of areas in my life, not just music and gear, I think a device like Push 2 warrants a reevaluation of my current studio setup.

I do not earn any money from music - zero. I’m serious about completing tracks, not just collecting gear (not that there’s anything wrong with that either!). I have self-released two albums and one EP. I would like to continue to release music in the future. However, I can no longer justify buying more and more gear.

I require two things most of all from any gear I purchase:

  1. Hands-on interaction. I stare at a computer all day for work. Not so interested in doing so for music when I get home, although I always have to do a bit of it I suppose. I like knobs, buttons, sliders, and intuitive interfaces.

  2. Sound. A physical instrument must possess something special aurally. I don’t play live. I don’t need a physical instrument simply to play at gigs so no one sees me using a laptop, or that sort of thing. So if it’s hardware, it must definitely greatly surpass the sound quality of a software instrument. Analog instruments seem to do that…

…but things like Diva, OBXD, TAL Sampler, TAL’s Juno emulation, etc. are so damn close I don’t know if it truly makes any difference to someone like me who can’t justify that extra money for a bit more sound quality here or there.

I think the hands-on interaction of Push 2 plus Diva, TAL instruments, etc. is quite a tempting combo for those who are scaling back and rethinking spending patterns.

But, I would have a hard time parting with my MS20 mini, Juno 106, or Rytm. I have also been looking on ebay at things lately, like Blofeld, DSI Prophet 12, Nord Lead 4, on and on. If something like Push 2 can help limit my GAS, I’m all for it!

I was not too excited about Push 2 before watching the videos. Now, I’m kinda excited, I admit. It solves a lot of limitations and gripes I had about Push 1 which I have used for over a year but always felt it was kinda half-baked, almost there, but not quite. Push 2 looks fantastic, but I’ll wait for third party reviews and forum feedback to trickle in.

But that’s just me, just my personal situation, and opinions.

#13

I don’t think Push would replace any of the items on your list except maybe the rytm. I didn’t really enjoy using Push 1 for drums (no workflow for swapping and editing samples on the fly, clunky sequencer, primitive plocks) but 2 might change that. What it mainly gives you is hands-on access to clips, FX and instruments within ableton. Looks like this version really fixes all my issues with Push, regarding vst integration and sample manipulation. Time will tell though.

#14

…but things like Diva, OBXD, TAL Sampler, TAL’s Juno emulation, etc. are so >damn close I don’t know if it truly makes any difference to someone like me >who can’t justify that extra money for a bit more sound quality here or there.

They indeed sound damn good ! The only reason I dont use these VST is that im not inspired by programming sound using a mouse & keyboard. Thats the only reason I prefer hardware.

But if it is possible to programm these vst using push2 screen & knobs without using at all the computer screen/mouse, then i may be tempted by push. …

#15

[quote="“Anfim”"]

I don’t think Push would replace any of the items on your list except maybe the rytm. I didn’t really enjoy using Push 1 for drums (no workflow for swapping and editing samples on the fly, clunky sequencer, primitive plocks) but 2 might change that. What it mainly gives you is hands-on access to clips, FX and instruments within ableton. Looks like this version really fixes all my issues with Push, regarding vst integration and sample manipulation. Time will tell though.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure Push 2 has killed the Octatrack for me. I’ve just watched the video on recording automation and step-based parameter changes (p-locks).

Not sure if the video will show it but, has Push 2 addressed the primitive p-locks and clunky sequencer you found in Push 1?

I can’t see any aspect of the Octatrack that isn’t bettered with Push 2 - except maybe Scene morphing, which I hardly use.

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#16

There are improvements that I missed on Push 1. For one the new display could really help to focus on the hardware for almost every task. Those slicing videos convinced me at once. If the pads are more sensitive than the previous ones, so much the better.

For me it’s not a case of “A vs B”, it’s a “A and B”. I like both workflows. Push 2 has strengths as well as the Elektron boxes. I like to take advantage of both worlds.

#17

can’t see any aspect of the Octatrack that isn’t bettered with Push 2 - except >maybe Scene morphing, which I hardly use.

I have never used push myself. But it seems the OT may be better :
-if you really need 8 records buffer ?
-if you use pickup machine ?
-to sequence & sample hardware synth
-if you hate computers

#18

If Push 2 makes it easier to customize and logically group VST control parameters, by banks, as well as custom naming of parameters, color control, etc. then I will be very tempted to go mostly ITB. Just depends on how much control they give us and how intuitive/easy it is to customize. The display already takes care of one pet peeve - no more annoying abbreviations. Looks like things are specified by full name with sharp easy to read text. Nice!!!

#19

[quote="“Anfim”"]

I don’t think Push would replace any of the items on your list except maybe the rytm. I didn’t really enjoy using Push 1 for drums (no workflow for swapping and editing samples on the fly, clunky sequencer, primitive plocks) but 2 might change that. What it mainly gives you is hands-on access to clips, FX and instruments within ableton. Looks like this version really fixes all my issues with Push, regarding vst integration and sample manipulation. Time will tell though.[/quote]
Yes, my current keeper list, I’m pretty happy with. The Rytm is in the danger zone of being replaced with Push 2, but I still do like the defined limitations of a specialized OS on the Rytm. Another weird one for me is - I really like 16 step buttons all laid out in a single row. For some reason going to the 2 rows of 8 always throw me. Ha!
.
Rytm might have some stiff competition though from Push 2, plus U-He compressor and satin (already own both anyways), plus the new cytomic-made analog modelled filters. Throw in some good Goldbaby samples and I imagine this will be all some users will ever need.
.
I’m off to watch the Push 2 “p-lock” demo videos. That’s obviously another area the Rytm has a leg up, at least with Push 1. I imagine if you could create a custom Push 2 bank of your most-used p-lock parameters, yeah, that would be pretty ace.

#20

but the p-lock stuff was there before ? (ever since they added the sequencer iirc )

I think the VST/AU usage will still be a bit disappointing initially, It only appears to be for inserting into tracks, and loading presets (and many synths don’t use aupresets) so it looks like your still best of ‘racking them up’ so you can add parameters etc.
What is really missing, is some way to be able to save VSTs with ‘pages’ of automation parameters(currently all parameters are one long list)… in a similar way to the build-in instruments.
BUT… looks like Ableton have recognised the requirement, so perhaps will will see more development here.

that said the Push2 is really nice, especially for audio the audio editing side, but also because some of the text is a bit cryptic on the push 1 due to limited characters… so this will be much better. (e.g. the browser looks considerably better)