thanks, its frustrating, I asked C&G if there was a difference between the USB and jack handling of data but no answer. I’ll keep fishing around and will post here if I find anything useful.
Hi, in a very simple setup of OT connected to organelle via a USB to DIN cable adapter I have no problems and am able to play, sequence and sync the organelle in any way I want. If I switch to OT connected to organelle via a MIDI jack to DIN cable I have problems
I get “stuck” notes when trying to play organelle from OT, same when sequencing. I also get weird mapping of CC to the org, e.g. the cross fader changes the tempo temporarily even with no scene change set.
I checked the cables, tested by driving the org from computer MIDI out through midi splitter box. All OK. I varied the note length, no impact. I have generally messed with most settings but noting seems to impact
I have talked to Critter and guitari about this and there is a known bug
I have seen this but its not what is giving me problems.
C&G don’t have an OT so are now at a loss, the M is a new product so I may have to wait until things develop but If any of you have the OT2 and the organelle M I’d REALLY appreciate a chat about this.
UPDATE I’m not the only one
Reading some of the symptoms in this thread suggest to me that the stuck notes and other anomalies may be caused by insufficient current to the optoisolator on the receiving midi input. The reason that this can happen is most likely due to incorrect/borderline resistors in the midi in circuit. I have designed and built a number of different midi interfaces and have come across this behaviour both in my own stuff at the prototyping stage and also in commercial designs.
A possible workaround to eliminating such problems - aside from modification of the midi input resistors - is to use another device as a midi thru between the sending device and the receiving device, this could be a midi thru box or another synth/drum machine with midi in and thru, although probably not one which takes power from the midi socket.
It is worth trying as I have found that it can definitely cure the problem, I’m not suggesting that this is the only cause for midi reception problems but in some cases it certainly is.
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Thanks very much for this new avenue @darenager , I have tried going through a “banana split” (six4pix.com) and no difference, do you think this device would do what you suggest or should I see if I can borrow/beg a different box to test?
@deviod Hmm, I actually have a couple of banana splits myself, as they are a powered unit then it probably won’t make any difference to try a different midi thru box, although it could be worth trying another midi device with an in and thru between your OT and the Organelle just to see.
That the Organelle works fine over USB midi host does seem to point to some mismatch between the OT output and the Organelle din midi input, it could also be worth trying a different midi cable just to rule out a cable problem.
Edit - I see that you mentioned you tried different cables, still could be worth trying a different one. For sanity also try an empty project on the OT with all midi channels for audio tracks set to off, and just assign a single midi track to the Organelle to see if it makes a difference.
@darenager tried different cables, one was custome made so I bought a type A din to jack adapter and tried that with a couple of other off the shelf cables and everything stayed the same.
Also, I just used my laptop as midi source (I’m DAWless but just ran Bomes Mouse keyboard) ran this into the banana split then from split to organelle using my custom din to jack midi cable and everything worked as it should so in that scenario the jack midi in worked fine and my cable is good.
Whilst the organelle may be at fault it does seem that its only the OT that has problems with it (this also seemed true on the G&C forum where other users all said “no problems its all fine” but none had an OT)
My confusion with all this is why I’m really hoping someone with an identical setup will reach out so I can compare like for like.
Just saw your “fresh project” suggestion, on that now… update coming
@darenager UPDATE:
Well thats interesting - blank project - org set to Rx on C16, set Midi track 1 to C16 - full keyboard control playing org from OT - brilliant…except, no clock sync, go to midi settings and switch on clock-send and it all goes wrong, stuck notes etc as I was before.
Switch off clock sync and all good again.
This feels like progress but I dont know what its telling me? Doesnt behave like this with USB midi.
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Weird.
Check to make sure turbo midi is set to 1.0x/OFF and also just to rule out any possible clock/transport issues ensure that clock in and transport in are turned off when you have clock and transport out turned on.
Confirmed setting were as you suggest:
turbo = x1 clock.
On midi sync page:
transp send is checked (on) recv is unchecked (off)
clock send is checked (on) recv is unchecked (off)
To clarify those settings are still giving the issue?
If so then try turning off clock but leave transport as sending, then try turning off transport and leaving clock as sending to see which message is causing the issue, if only one of them then you may be able to work around it?
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Hi, yes they still give the issue.
It is the clock that causes the problem, transport on/off doesnt change things. problem is that I use the OT clock as masterclock for other things so cant live without it unless I go for external othetr clock, but the OT as the heart of the system was kind of the whole plan…hmmm, anyway with your help we do seem to have got a bit further.
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Well one final thing worth checking if you have not already, is if the computer is sending clock to the Organelle via din midi does this cause issues? I know you said you aren’t using a DAW but if you have another midi app that can send clock (or download something) it might determine definitively whether the Octatrack or the Organelle din midi is the root of the problem.
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good idea, will get back later on this (day job calls!)
At least it will allow you to contact either C&G or Elektron with as much info as possible, I suspect it is a firmware bug.
sooooo, tried MIDI-OX on laptop, send a clock and note date - all OK! Conclusion is that its OT specific, have raised a ticket with electron support and ill keep you posted.
Thanks for your time.
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Interesting and you’re welcome, which OT OS are you on?
The OT doesn’t send proper MIDI note off messages, but sends MIDI note on messages with velocity 0 instead (as already discussed here in the older posts).
With the organelle each single patch is responsible to “interpret” the incoming MIDI data. I guess that the patch you are using doesn’t treat the note on with velocity 0 as note off.
So either fix the patch itself or put a MIDI processor in between the devices which translates the note on with velocity 0 messages into proper note off messages.
Thanks for your comments @tnussb , we have discussed this but it isn’t that simple. A given patch on the organelle works fine from USB midi but not from jack midi. the failures on jack midi are not every note off just some and it misses some note on as well. Also all note on and off are captured provided the clock sync is not running.
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@darenager 3.0D , there seems to be a ver 3.1 available but the only stated diff is a screen saver so doubt that will change anything should I update?
I posted the issue to Elektron support and their response was:
“I suspect that the Organelle doesn’t handle MIDI real-time messages correctly. MIDI-clock is allowed to occur anywhere in the MIDI-stream according to the MIDI-standard. A note message that normally looks like eg. 0x90 0x60 0x7f is allowed to be interrupted by MIDI-clock (0xf8). In other words, it is fully possible that the sequence could look like 0x90 0xf8 0x60 0x7f and that’s totally fine according to the MIDI-standard. Based on your error description and how the Octatrack works this is what I believe is causing the issues. As I don’t have an Organelle here I can’t confirm this, but it’s my best guess. I hope it helps!”
This sounds plausible except the fact that the organelle handles USB midi fine, but there might be some mangement of the USB signals that isnt happening on the jack inputs?
I’ll go back to Guitari and critter and see if I can get any more infor from them.
What I REALLY need though is someone else who owns an OT and and organelle M to compare notes with. Seems like this is an ultra rare combo!
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