Octatrack MKII midi notes sticking in OP-1 and Organelle

[Supercolor_T-120]

It’s probably not helpful, but I’ve had this happen with other gear over the years (thankfully not the OT so far). If I tried to sequence my old MidiNES from the MPC2000xl, all of the notes would get stuck on as soon as a pattern looped. Never happened with any other synth, and rarely happened when sequencing the MidiNES from any other sequencer. Similar, but less consistent, problems trying to sequence an MT32 from a Beatstep Pro - After a minute or two I’d start getting notes stuck at random and could only stop them by power cycling the MT-32.

Unfortunately I never found solutions for either.

[tengig]

Hmpf seems a lot to spend on a hunch… especially when the DT tests suggest your USB host is working ok.

What about another kind of testing, where you manually trigger notes, simultaneously, quickly, mashing the keyboard etc, and see if you can recreate the problem that way? Perhaps you will gain some insight into what exactly is causing the notes to stick (missed note-off?)

You could also try routing your MIDI via a computer, running some kind of MIDI spy tool to print all of the messages as they come through. Depending on what set of MIDI interfaces you already own, you could eliminate (or not eliminate) the USB host box from the test, too.

Are you sure there’s no difference between what you’re sending with the DT and what you are sending with the OT?

[mpiecora]

Ok… so now we know. Kenton midi it is I guess. I still don’t know why the Digitakt works, but it doesn’t matter anyway.

[Hexsupport]

I don’t have any solutions but I’m interested, using the 3 big O devices here. Do you sync the op1 and organelle at the same time? I have the mk1, but I’m about to embark on a similar journey

[deviod]

Hi @mpiecora , i see this post is a couple of years old but was wondering if you made any progress on understanding what was wrong here? I have an OT MKII and have just bought an organelle M and I have the same problem when connected to organelle via its midi (jack) input (stuck notes) but don’t have any problem if I connect using a din to USB adapter cable. Any thoughts?

[mpiecora]

Unfortunately, I did not find an answer to that. I think the Octatrack sends a lot of unwanted midi data that argues with devices like the Organelle. I found that some patches work, and some do not, mostly they do not. Maybe there is something about the USB that filters some of the midi data vs the 1/8" midi adapter on the M.

[deviod]

thanks, its frustrating, I asked C&G if there was a difference between the USB and jack handling of data but no answer. I’ll keep fishing around and will post here if I find anything useful.

[deviod]

Hi, in a very simple setup of OT connected to organelle via a USB to DIN cable adapter I have no problems and am able to play, sequence and sync the organelle in any way I want. If I switch to OT connected to organelle via a MIDI jack to DIN cable I have problems

I get “stuck” notes when trying to play organelle from OT, same when sequencing. I also get weird mapping of CC to the org, e.g. the cross fader changes the tempo temporarily even with no scene change set.

I checked the cables, tested by driving the org from computer MIDI out through midi splitter box. All OK. I varied the note length, no impact. I have generally messed with most settings but noting seems to impact

I have talked to Critter and guitari about this and there is a known bug

I have seen this but its not what is giving me problems.

C&G don’t have an OT so are now at a loss, the M is a new product so I may have to wait until things develop but If any of you have the OT2 and the organelle M I’d REALLY appreciate a chat about this.

UPDATE I’m not the only one

[darenager]

Reading some of the symptoms in this thread suggest to me that the stuck notes and other anomalies may be caused by insufficient current to the optoisolator on the receiving midi input. The reason that this can happen is most likely due to incorrect/borderline resistors in the midi in circuit. I have designed and built a number of different midi interfaces and have come across this behaviour both in my own stuff at the prototyping stage and also in commercial designs.

A possible workaround to eliminating such problems - aside from modification of the midi input resistors - is to use another device as a midi thru between the sending device and the receiving device, this could be a midi thru box or another synth/drum machine with midi in and thru, although probably not one which takes power from the midi socket.

It is worth trying as I have found that it can definitely cure the problem, I’m not suggesting that this is the only cause for midi reception problems but in some cases it certainly is.

[deviod]

Thanks very much for this new avenue @darenager , I have tried going through a “banana split” (six4pix.com) and no difference, do you think this device would do what you suggest or should I see if I can borrow/beg a different box to test?

[darenager]

@deviod Hmm, I actually have a couple of banana splits myself, as they are a powered unit then it probably won’t make any difference to try a different midi thru box, although it could be worth trying another midi device with an in and thru between your OT and the Organelle just to see.

That the Organelle works fine over USB midi host does seem to point to some mismatch between the OT output and the Organelle din midi input, it could also be worth trying a different midi cable just to rule out a cable problem.

Edit - I see that you mentioned you tried different cables, still could be worth trying a different one. For sanity also try an empty project on the OT with all midi channels for audio tracks set to off, and just assign a single midi track to the Organelle to see if it makes a difference.

[deviod]

@darenager tried different cables, one was custome made so I bought a type A din to jack adapter and tried that with a couple of other off the shelf cables and everything stayed the same.

Also, I just used my laptop as midi source (I’m DAWless but just ran Bomes Mouse keyboard) ran this into the banana split then from split to organelle using my custom din to jack midi cable and everything worked as it should so in that scenario the jack midi in worked fine and my cable is good.

Whilst the organelle may be at fault it does seem that its only the OT that has problems with it (this also seemed true on the G&C forum where other users all said “no problems its all fine” but none had an OT)

My confusion with all this is why I’m really hoping someone with an identical setup will reach out so I can compare like for like.

Just saw your “fresh project” suggestion, on that now… update coming

[deviod]

@darenager UPDATE:
Well thats interesting - blank project - org set to Rx on C16, set Midi track 1 to C16 - full keyboard control playing org from OT - brilliant…except, no clock sync, go to midi settings and switch on clock-send and it all goes wrong, stuck notes etc as I was before.

Switch off clock sync and all good again.

This feels like progress but I dont know what its telling me? Doesnt behave like this with USB midi.

[darenager]

Weird.

Check to make sure turbo midi is set to 1.0x/OFF and also just to rule out any possible clock/transport issues ensure that clock in and transport in are turned off when you have clock and transport out turned on.

[deviod]

Confirmed setting were as you suggest:

turbo = x1 clock.
On midi sync page:
transp send is checked (on) recv is unchecked (off)
clock send is checked (on) recv is unchecked (off)

[darenager]

To clarify those settings are still giving the issue?

If so then try turning off clock but leave transport as sending, then try turning off transport and leaving clock as sending to see which message is causing the issue, if only one of them then you may be able to work around it?

[deviod]

Hi, yes they still give the issue.

It is the clock that causes the problem, transport on/off doesnt change things. problem is that I use the OT clock as masterclock for other things so cant live without it unless I go for external othetr clock, but the OT as the heart of the system was kind of the whole plan…hmmm, anyway with your help we do seem to have got a bit further.

[darenager]

Well one final thing worth checking if you have not already, is if the computer is sending clock to the Organelle via din midi does this cause issues? I know you said you aren’t using a DAW but if you have another midi app that can send clock (or download something) it might determine definitively whether the Octatrack or the Organelle din midi is the root of the problem.

[deviod]

good idea, will get back later on this (day job calls!)

[darenager]

At least it will allow you to contact either C&G or Elektron with as much info as possible, I suspect it is a firmware bug.