Roland Sh-4d

The Lounge Other Gear
#585

At a certain point my head spins at the sprawling multiverse of Roland legacy sounds. There are different versions, market niches, and design philosophies that they’ve used to repackage a half-dozen synths from the 80s/90s as—at least!— the Boutique series and its earlier iterations that (TB-3 etc), Juno X, Jupiter XM, Roland Cloud, Gaia SH-01, the JD-XA, the MC 101 and 707, MV-1, the TR-8s and -6s, ZenBeats … and then there are the different VA synth engines Zenology, Zencore, ACB.

[Edit: forgot the new Aira compact series and Juno DS88, lol, and I bet there are still more…]

After some initial skepticism, though, I think that if I were wanting to go beyond samples and the occasional bit using Analog Lab Intro, the SH-4D would be a good sound module for those Roland Sounds for me. Especially having multitimbrality and patch changes and a mod matrix that’s available to PC and CC messages respectively makes this stand out … though I feel overwhelmed by the prospect of having to confirm that this, and not a literal dozen other similar products, would have the right combination of features for me…

2 Likes
#586

I think picking one and committing is the way to go. Or return gear if it doesn’t work. Decision paralysis is definitely something I understand and can relate to, especially when a lot of options exist.

2 Likes
#587

I think the “gyro” is a god-awful idea, sooner or later, your cords are going to come out, you know this to be true…

#588

Not trying to make it easier for you, but if you haven’t already, you might want to consider a used MC-101. It’s much less of a live tweakable synthesizer, but it has plenty of midi cc support to have its synth engine controlled externally, it has all the Roland sounds you could possibly imagine (and then some, with over 3000 presets and random tone generators), it comes with nearly the same generous amount of effects, including per-track inserts, master fx, EQs, multiband compressors etc, and it has four tracks of multitimbrality with something like 128 notes of polyphony.

It doesn’t have the same macro mod matrix as the SH-4d, but can certainly assign some modulations to those C1-C4 knobs, including cross-modulation between oscillators. It has those same “analog feel” parameters and Juno oscillators, and can even load custom PCM/samples/single-cycle-waveforms as tone oscillators. Technically the synth engine is a bit more advanced than the SH-4d underneath that menu structure, but it’s of course not nearly as immediately tweakable live, so it all depends on how you’ll use it. But if primarily controlled via midi cc’s, I’d say it’s more than adequate and the actual sound editor (Partial Editor), while not particularly fun to use, gets you there pretty quickly with some practice, if you know what kind of sound you’re after.

It’s also half price of the SH-4d (around 300 EUR/USD used), half size, super lightweight and easy to flip again of you don’t like it.

5 Likes
#589

I’m kinda considering this or a Digitone as a polyphonic desktop companion to my Syntakt. On paper the SH-4D is offering a lot of synth for the money but I think it’s all going to come down to whether I can live with Roland’s menu-divey UI. It’s all well having those dozens of insert FX but if I have to wade through pages of menus I’m not going to bother experimenting with them.

The advantage to the Digitone is that I know how it all works and it still gives me the best-in-class sequencer. The downside is that FM still throws me off sometimes and it can end up more of preset with tweaks machine for me. I’m thinking that the SH-4D will be more intuitive (mostly) subtractive and a bit more polyphony but with a less flexible and enjoyable sequencer.

Guess I’ll have to wait and try it before making my choice.

1 Like
#590
Off topic answer

For more subtractive sounds on the DN I recommend the Gemometry sound pack. It’s like having an instant analog synth in your Digitone. Just take one of the presets and design your analogish sounds from there, or “steal” the FM idea’s so you don’t have to figure it all out by yourself.

2 Likes
#591

Yes, the SH-4d will definitely be more straightforward to dial in subtractive sounds. Choosing an effect for a track looks very straightforward and not very menu divey at all. If you haven’t already, check out a tutorial or two on YouTube.

I think the key difference will come down to the sequencer. With the Digitone, you’ll probably use its built-in sequencer alongside the Syntakt, whereas on the SH-4d, I’d imagine you will prefer to control it from the Syntakt instead. Meaning that in practice, a Digitone will give you 16 tracks in total, whereas the SH-4d kind of gives you 12 tracks since you’ll want to devote some Syntakt tracks to the midi machine. In practice, 12 tracks in total, with polyphony on four of them, is still plenty to work with though. :blush:

1 Like
#592

This always amuses me a bit… the Digitone (and most Elektron devices) are menu divey and the least knob-per-function that you can get.
What they’re good at is making it intuitive and tactile (I think Roland and most manufacturers don’t understand the power of clicky buttons).
But from what I’ve seen so far of the SH4d, its screen seems way superior to other Roland devices (I’m thinking of my MC707 and JD-XA here).

3 Likes
#593

elektron aren’t menu divey. they have a menu for setting up certain things (prerequisites and that), but for synthesis & general use they’re more “page per function”. i wouldn’t call them menu divey at all personally.

8 Likes
#594

I think this is the genius of the Elektron UI. I find it really interesting that Korg were clearly very influenced by the Elektron UI with the Opsix, but they don’t seem to have been able to pull off the same trick of making it intuitive.

I really wanted a TR-8s and spent some time with one in a shop trying to figure it out. I loved the sound of it, but programming it felt like trying to set the timer on a late 80s VHS player. Just couldn’t see myself ever enjoying using it. Obviously loads love it though, so that’s just my subjective experience.

I think the screen and UI on this 4d seems a fair bit better, but I think a lot of the time manufacturers like Roland are getting caught up in this idea that more knobs = better UI, which is only true if you don’t hide important functions at the bottom of a bunch of sub-menus. I’m not convinced looking at the 4d that I wouldn’t end up feeling the same way as I did with the TR-8s the second I have to do anything with FX or some deeper parameters than Osc, filter and envelopes.

Also, I still don’t understand why so many synth manufacturers are so afraid of endless encoders.

8 Likes
#595

its bizarre not having endless encoders on this 🤷

3 Likes
#596

Yeah, I think it’s pretty much a deal breaker for me on anything multi-timbral.

6 Likes
#597

The chord model patch at 6:10 is quite nice. The pitch increases on the release of the note, I’m assuming that’s been done with the mod matrix somehow? This was something you could easily do on the JD-800

2 Likes
#598

It has a catch mode at least

2 Likes
#599

It feels like Elektron prioritize user experience above all else, but I get the impression that Roland doesn’t. It feels like they are more focused on a list of features.
Do they even user test products? There are so many issues on e.g. MC-707 that would’ve been obvious on the very first user test, and many of them could’ve been resolved with firmware updates.

Hardware is all about having fun and feeling connected with the instrument to me. If it feels like I’m being slowed down, it just feels pointless and I’d rather use a laptop…

4 Likes
#600

To be fair to them, I reckon most of their customers are too.

2 Likes
#601

The secret with the TR-8S is to use buttons [CTRL] + [Channel Name]. And presto ! Easy access to most important sound design params.

1 Like
#603

Going to put some real time in with my mc101 and [any elektron] before I gas too longingly on this.

Looks like a lot going for it though for banging out multi track ditties and sound exploration with the battery of SP/MC effects - Need to study the workflow a bit more.

1 Like
#604

I think everyone will have different views on this, personally I don’t particularly like encoders, much prefer pots and sliders so this is probably right up my street, and I don’t like catch modes either. I think the 4 sliders under the screen is a great design.

1 Like
#605

Have ever programmed QPerf macros? Or gone in to make numerous Aftertouch and Velocity mods?
They’re menu divey.
It’s a trade off, and one that most of (inc me) are happy with.
Honestly, given that Overbridge is also there for when you need to go deep, I think Elektron are well ahead of everyone else on the UI front. (I quite like Sequential’s approach too).

3 Likes