Roland Sh-4d

Definitely agree with “page per function” and being the least knob-per-function since the encoders are shared across pages. But in my opinion, the Syntakt is the least menu divey synth I’ve ever used. Even the Minilogue XD is more dependent on its confusing menu laid out across a grid of trigs. And yeah, definitely agree that more knobs isn’t necessarily the recipe for intuitive control. In fact, arguably an interface with endless encoders and a shared set of knobs for the filter and amp envelope sections would be more, not less, intuitive (assuming it had a little display showing the current values).

Roland often struggles with this. On the MC-101, to edit a standard tone parameter, you hit Shift+Sound and scroll to SETTING and push the value knob. Then scroll with the value knob to find the parameter you want to change, push the value knob, and then scroll to dial in the value, and push the value knob again to confirm, then push Exit twice to get back to the main screen again. Or if you want to change the EQ of a track, hold Shift and press the track number, scroll to the EQ switch, push and scroll to switch it on, push again, then scroll further to the EQ parameters, push, scroll, etc etc, Exit, Exit. It’s hard to fathom how much simpler these things are on a Syntakt unless you’ve experienced both first hand.

What Elektron has truly mastered is making careful considerations of which parameters are going to be tweaked frequently and in live performance situations, and which parameters are more set-and-forget kind of things. The velocity/AT macro screen is a good example of something you aren’t going to go back and change much once it’s programmed, whereas the filter cutoff is always just a button press away and you can do it blindfolded. This goes to show how far they’ve pushed it and this is why I often compare it with video games like SSFII where you have to learn some complex buttom combos, but once you do, you’ll fly through the game like a pro.

Some might even argue that they’ve pushed things a little too far on the Syntakt because the synth engines have been simplified as a consequence of their design goals to make it more immediate. (The Digitone is more “traditional” in the sense that it offers multiple pages of parameters and as such can feel a bit less intuitive.) The Syntakt is so quick and intuitive to use that I almost never bother to browser for presets - it’s faster to just dial in the sound I want because it typically takes less than ten seconds to get into the ballpark.

Indeed, Roland has gotten better at this and the SH-4d is a good example of it. Instead of the above MC-101 workflow, you press Shift+Tone and have clear access to all the parameters you want right there. The screen makes a massive difference here of course. Still though, the decision to use knobs instead of endless encoders on a multi-timbral synth is an odd choice that is bound to get confusing/frustrating when performing on it. It would be interesting to hear their rationale for it and learn more about their design philosophies. I’m guessing that they view the SH-4d primarily as a studio equipment, with live performance being more of a secondary use case. But then again, their promotional videos seem to suggest otherwise. Maybe it’s a flirt with the past, or the idea is, like on the SP-404 MK2, that you’re supposed to get so fluent with it that you can dial a knob blindfolded and “feel” where it is. Or maybe they’re just a bit conservative or think that their target audience is? But I suppose it’s also a question of which price point a piece of hardware is targeted at. The Hydrasynth is an example of an interface with endless encoders that also shows the current values via its ring LEDs. I think anyone would agree that that’s superior to not having the ring LEDs, but it’s a question of how much people are willing to pay for it. If ASM designed the SH-4d, I’m sure they would have opted for that interface rather than knobs with physical endpoints.

One sign of where Roland is definitely getting better at UX design: although the MC-101’s brand new Partial Editor that shipped with the 1.8 firmware has to be one of the most complex and deep additions to this undersized little groovebox, it’s surprisingly one of the most intuitive interfaces of the entire device. Fun? No, but easy to learn and with practice get pretty quick with? Definitely.

This I agree with 100%. In fact, this should be the primary consideration if you’re doing hardware for the fun of it. If it’s not fun, it’s not for you. I can live with parts of the UI being less fun, but if the primary workflow - the stuff you do over and over on it - isn’t fun, then it’s not worth keeping it.

The trend with more “fun” screens is clear with Syntakt leading the way, followed by the Minifreak launch late last year, and now this SH-4d. It would be a safe prediction that there are many more devices with screens like that to come in 2023.

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I think it really depends on what you’re using it for. If you want to use it for live tweaking, it’s not ideal on a multi-timbral synth, even with catch mode (unusable without it). If you want to use it for studio recording, knobs and sliders can be an advantage I’d say: you can just set the knobs and sliders so that they represent the actual value (maybe there even is a manual mode shortcut like on the boutiques?). Then you have control over the parameters with visual feedback from looking at the knobs or sliders instead of the display. A lot better for recording changes than the page jumping and endless encoders on Elektrons, just doesn’t feel that rewarding with zero haptic feedback.

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It works well the studio, until you change track… then all knob positions will just confuse you. And you don’t know what knobs are correct or not. Then you turn some knobs and go back to track one… But what knobs did you tweak again? :smiley:

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The Nord Leads also have potentiometers, four part multitimbral, do they have a catch up mode? The Nord Lead 3 had encoders with LED rings (theres a thread on the Nord user forum “those stupid led ringed knobs”. Not everyone seemed to appreciate them).

They went back to potentiometers with the Nord Lead 4 again. Encoders are more expensive, so Roland could have done it similar to Elektron with a display and a few encoders or the SH-4D probably would have been priced much higher.

Agreed, though I feel Elektron did a pretty good job with the macros and scenes. They provide some haptic feedback. Octatrack’s crossfader with 16 button to select scenes and Rytm’s pads provide much more feedback then the encoder macros on the A4, but some people perform live with only the macros, so there’s some element of muscle memory there which might overcome the lack of haptic feedback, at least to some extend.

Also, macros can be midi controlled, so a midi controller with potentiometers could help there.

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Yes of course. But there is still a limited set of parameters you can change via knobs and sliders. And you might not always want to adjust each one of them if you’ve switched to a different track. So it should often be okay to quickly adjust the knobs and sliders you want to play around with until they catch their real value and then you’re good to go. Works like that on Rev2 e.g. and although not ideal, it’s okay if you’re not using it live. If you implement it without a catch function like e.g. JX08, it’s a nightmare.

@Schnork: agreed, especially OT slider feels awesome and rewarding. But digis don’t have macros (except for ST performance buttons). And macros on the flagships are great if you know exactly what you want to do ahead of time. Then it’s great and an advantage to have these few controls to change a lot of parameters intuitively. But in the moment and without a clear plan, they don’t do anything. Knob per function synths invite you to explore what changes work or not by giving you straight access.

It’s always a trade off and depends on use case. I#m going back and forth honestly, as hands-on-interfaces make me improvise a lot more, but Elektrons make it so much easier to understand what’s going on and keep on working on stuff over long periods of time. My dream would be something like SH-4D by Elektron with their standard encoders and pages and then some additional knobs or sliders that are dedicated to e.g. filter and some that can be routed to anything you want.

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Literally the only reason I bought a Syntakt.

Came for the “click-clack”, stayed for the Boom Boom.

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:joy::partying_face:

Note you can press shift and not worry about changing a parameter as you turn a dial. It will let you adjust to the point of the dial and then move from there. Not ideal, but I imagine a designer found a solution based on what was available.

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Shared Image

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I do love the Syntakt, but I can’t stand being at a desk. I have a battery setup for it, but it’s awkward to use even with a portable stand setup. That’s why I’ve been focusing more on devices with batteries. Can just swap out rechargeable ever 4 hours and position it how I want. I purchased the Model series thinking I’d get that portability and then Elektron basically gave up on that. I would have paid $100 for that handle. If I can’t be portable for noodling around my interest fades. My Syntakt is currently sitting on a shelf and I love it’s sound, but I’m not using it.

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I can relate to that. It’s so nice to just get out my SH01a if I feel like adding some analog sound, plug it into my OT and remove it when I’m done. If I bring it to a jam session and know I will probably leave it on longer than the battery will last, I just plug it into the power bank I have for my Keystep anyways.

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Hehe. I blame Elektron. They could design a module for their three Digi boxes and make bank. They wouldn’t even need to sell the battery and I’d buy it. There are thousands of Digi boxes users that are all the same form factor and all are longing for some measure of portability. I sold my Takt eventually because of its sad shelf life. I resolved to keep one Elektron device for those sequencer moments in my life.

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This is a good point, many of the knobs may just be relevant for a single track so they can remain untouched when switching to other tracks. It’s probably the filter cutoff that will be the most jarring to use because, at least for the kind of music I make, it gets used on a lot of different tracks. On the Syntakt, I even use the ctrl+all function for the filter cutoff sometimes.

That sounds like a really interesting piece of gear indeed! I’ve had similar dreams of combining the Elektron workflow and experience with a wider sound palette that includes some of the Roland warmth and polyphony. :slight_smile:

Yeah, that’s a good workaround, it’s like a temporary catch mode. But they really should implement a scale mode for their knobs to make the experience smoother.

100%. I really, really (really!) wish Elektron will release a next-generation of hardware with a battery compartment as it would make them so much more fun to use. This is a big reason why the MC-101 has a place in my setup. But… you should use your Syntakt though. You know you love it, despite the power brick. :slight_smile:

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This is Roland ripping the piss out of two Swedish companies, and also themselves.
I mean that in a lighthearted way.

A 101, Juno and drums is enough for me, hang the filter, it don’t matter in OUR house :wink:

I’m actually more interested in the rhythm section on this than the synths, pity only @cuckoomusic really investigated the drums a little in his vid.
Someone really needs a deep dive into the perc section on this monolith…

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After reading the manual, and spending some time thinking about voice allocation this is my breakdown. If anyone who has dived deep into the manual sees an error with voice allocation let me know!

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There’s a Catch mode option in the settings, no need to hold shift.

Holding shift and turning a knob just shows it’s current value.

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You can 3d print the handle, buy a portable battery and a cable and pretty much make the Model series portable for prob less than 100 euros, the files are available online.

Since Elektron won’t take the matter in their own hands we might aswell try something ourselves :slight_smile:

One thing I’ve noticed is that no-one has shown in any video is changing patterns without stopping the sequencer. Every video so far they have stopped the sequencer between patterns when running through the default patterns. Having seen plenty of sequencers cut the note release or FX tails (both the electribe 2 and MC-707 did this on release), I’d like to see a demo of this.

I’d also like to know how well it responds to receiving program changes from other gear. The MC-707 and T-8 change scenes/patterns beautifully when receiving PCMs from my Elektron gear, but the TR-6S/TR-8S always glitched out, skipped beats and went out of sync when responding program change messages. This was one of the main reasons I sold it.

Cheers Starsky :sweat_smile:
12 mins ago…

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