Need Midi routing advice

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

I need to figure out the most efficient way to hook all of my gear together via midi, no computer. I’m not sure wether I need a 4x4 midi merger, plus a midi thru box, or some kind of midi patch bay. I’m a bit of a noob with merge and thru boxes, and no very little about older midi patch bays.

My Set up includes:
Alesis Q49
Tempest
Octatrack
Slim Phatty
KP3+, and will eventually add some midi accessible moogerfoogers.

Right now I have the Tempest and the Q49 going to a 2x1 midi merge cable running into the Octatrack,
Octatrack MIDI OUT to the SlimPhatty.
SlimPhatty MIDI THRU back to the Tempest.
This lets me use the Tempest as Master Clock, and I can play the SlimPhatty from either the Q40 or the OT.
I can also play Tempest synth sounds from the Q49 and OT, as well as control a few other Tempest params from the OT.

Tempest Midi Out > Midi Thru Box
Midi Thru OUT > KP3 (to synch the KP3 from Tempest)
Midi Thru Out > Midi Merge (to sync OT)

SlimPhatty Midi Out > Midi Merge IN
KP3 Midi Out > Midi Merge IN
Midi Merge OUT > Octatrack Midi IN
Octatrack Thur > Tempest Midi IN

Im thinking this would let me use the Tempest as the Master clock running to the Thru Box > Midi Merge > OT, and the KP3
The Q49 could play the OT the SlimPhatty, or the Tempest per chosen Midi Channel.
The SlimPhatty’s CC values could be sent into the OT via SP Midi Out > Merger > OT Midi IN
And I could use the KP3 as a controller by sending its Midi OUT to the Merger.

Any pointers on how to get all of this stuff hooked up proper would be great.
Also open to wether the Octatrack should be the Master Clock vs the Tempest.
Midi Mergers, Thru Boxes, Patchbays?
I need advice.

Thanks

MIDI clock + midi thru? Possible?
Chaining MIDI through/merge/split/I/O limitations?
#2

I’m having a hard time making sense of that post.

Here’s what I would do given the gear.

Q49> OT
OT> Tempest>Slim Phatty > KP3

As far as I can remember ,as I’ve owned most of this, the Tempest and the Slim Phatty have MIDI thru and the KP3 does not.

Set your OT Auto MIDI Channel to whatever channel the Q49 is set to. Set up a MIDI sequencer track assigned to the MIDI channel of the Tempest and another to the MIDI channel of the Slim Phatty. Then whenever you select those tracks the OT spits the messages from your Q49 to your other gear.

I can’t really see the need for the thru or merge boxes in this set up. I need them cuz I have a few things that do not have MIDI through.

-b

#3

Yeah, I think you’re making it more complex than it needs to be
This sentence doesn’t make any sense at all :

“SlimPhatty MIDI THRU back to the Tempest.
This lets me use the Tempest as Master Clock”

Midi Thru just allows you to ‘daisy chain’ devices. You connect the ‘Midi Thru’ of one device to the ‘Midi In’ of the next device in the chain. It’s a one way connection. To have the OT slaved to the Tempest you’d need to connect the Midi Out of the Tempest to the Midi In of the OT.

With this small number of devices you shouldn’t need midi merge boxes unless your devices are lacking Midi Thru sockets. I know the Slim Phatty has Midi Thru, and I assume the Tempest must have.

#4

Are you having any problems with the way you’ve got it set up now?

Daisy chaining MIDI gear( i.e. hooking things up one after the other instead of using a MIDI through box or a merger or whatever) can lead to timing troubles if

(i) your daisy chain is too long

(ii) your equipment doesn’t handle MIDI through effectively

So it’s not so much a matter of “right/wrong” as “does it work”?

If you have timing issues you’ll need to do some trouble shooting and the issue will probably be something specific to your setup. If the daisy chaining looks like it’s causing the trouble that’s when you will need to worry about getting a merge box or whatever.

The way your setup is now, without the KP3 and Moogerfoogers, your longest daisy chain has two connections in it so you are probably good, (just like newgreyarea and bambrose said).

With the KP3 it may get a bet tricky. I’ve got a Tempest and (I think) it has clock thru only so (if I’m right) newgreyarea’s suggestion will work fine so long as you are happy to use the Tempest to sequence the Slim Phatty.

Otherwise, without any extra gear, I think you’re looking at one long line:

Alesis -> OT -> Slim Phatty -> Tempest -> KP3.

This means you are sending your clock through a three-link daisy chain which may still be fine but you should definitely check for timing issues. If it works then you’re cool.

If it doesn’t work and if you can’t find a better solution, I’d just buy a 1-in 4-out or 1-in 8-out thru box. Then you’d have no long chains, all your problems should disappear and you’d be cool when you get your Moogerfoogers later on.

#5

don’t mean to be rude, but as you’ve already spent $2k on a drum machine, just save yourself the headache and at least drop $60 on a little 1 to 4 splitter box…

1 Like
#6

Sorry if my post was confusing, it was the wee hours.

Tempest has no Midi Thru port.
The SlimPhatty has problems synced from Tempest. For some reason receiving a clock makes note on/offs start to work in reverse. Not good.
OT only has 1 midi in.

The goal would be to
Use the Q49 to play the SP, and the Tempest.
I want to record my sequences for SlimPhatty, in the OT.
I want to record my sequences for Tempest, in the Tempest.
I want to record my SlimPhatty knob automation in the OT.
I want the KP3 synced to the clock somehow.
eventually I want to sequence moogerfooger parameters from the OT.

I was set up like this
Tempest OUT, and Q49 > 2-1 merger > OT > SLimPhatty THRU > Tempest
My merger cable broke.
Although this configuration works on a base level,
I still want to connect SP out > OT to record knob automation, and get a clock to the KP3.

I am completely unfamiliar with midi patchbays, but after reading up on them it seems to be the solution.

#7

I’m surprised that the Tempest doesn’t have midi thru, but that does seem to suggest a merge box (aka splitter) would be useful.

Midi patch bays would be another way to do it as you suggest, or a midi switch box (like this one http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/philip-rees-9s-9-way-midi-selector-switch/1044239682)

When you say ‘I want to record my sequences for Tempest in the Tempest’ what do you mean ? (I don’t own one so difficult to understand what you’re getting at)

If you have the OT out connected to a box like this one, and each of the other boxes connected to that . Then you should only need to connect your input keyboard (Q49) into the input of the OT. That should do it by my understanding. Only difficulties will arise if you want to slave everything to the Tempest and not the OT

#8

If I want to record playing a synth sound on the Tempest from the Q49, I will record that on the Tempest.
I prefer all note data for Tempest to remain in the Tempest sequencer.

#9

The Unitor 8 works as a programmable patchbay, i can’t recall if it’s tied to the computer (probably not but check) They are mighty and were phenomenally expensive, but can be picked up for eye wateringly cheap prices these days - drivers, even on the mac can be an issue (but there is 3rd party support) - do some thorough research first, but it could be a cost effective way to deal with some of your midi plumbing

#10

It requires a computer for setting up the patches and they can be changed via Program change messages. . . . so I’m told. I’ve not been able to get mine to work like that. I just set mine up for one patch I use and it starts up with that every time.

JuanSOLO - I’ve actually taken to assigned my most used parameters to the CC’s in the OT MIDI sequencer tracks. It’s easier for me to control from there and I can do P-Locks. . . meaning the only MIDI going into my OT is the controller keyboard.
Can you set up the Tempest MIDI out to run as a MIDI Thru? Have you considered using the OT as the master clock? IT works quite well. I can’t think of an advantage of having the Tempest as master… . . . but I got rid of my Tempest so what do I know!!? Kinda miss it but I definitely don’t need more gear!!!

#11

I cant imagine doing much with switching presets/banks on a patchbay. I just need my gear routed one particular way.

I’m thinking I could just go ahead and get the latest MOTU XT. I imagine it would be a good choice in regards to easy to use with the computer, and works as standalone. However the price seems steep when considering older models going for way less. And do I need all that functionality?

This makes me wonder what my best options are for something older, programmable from the front panel, able to run in standalone.
Roland A-880?
PV Midi Master II? Although peavey wall warts can get noisy.
Digital Music Corp MX-8?

OR, just getting a 4to1 Midi Merger and 4 port Midi Thru box?

#12

It requires a computer for setting up the patches and they can be changed via Program change messages. . . . so I’m told. I’ve not been able to get mine to work like that. I just set mine up for one patch I use and it starts up with that every time.

[/quote]
fwiw - the patches can be changed with momentary switches (a bit like the pedal you’d get with a guitar amp) - i built two into a jack plug, one switches up, the other down


it’s almost certainly better to have a few utility midi thru/merges etc tho

Midi chaining / keyboard notes passing through rytm to four
#13

You could pick up a MOTU MIDI Patchbay for about £50 from Ebay and just wire up all the ins/outs from your kit to that? I was having routing issues but got one myself and find that its a pretty useful thing to have in the studio.

The most useful thing is being able to route individual channels from each input to any of the outputs at the touch of button and save them as presets, so you can easily have completely different mappings for different tasks or sequencers etc.

#14

It requires a computer for setting up the patches and they can be changed via Program change messages. . . . so I’m told. I’ve not been able to get mine to work like that. I just set mine up for one patch I use and it starts up with that every time.

[/quote]
fwiw - the patches can be changed with momentary switches (a bit like the pedal you’d get with a guitar amp) - i built two into a jack plug, one switches up, the other down


it’s almost certainly better to have a few utility midi thru/merges etc tho [/quote]
Nice!! I need something like that!

#15

Exactly which one did you get for £50?
How easy is it to customize?
Whats that process like?
Thanks.

#16

Hey Juan
I just bought an old MOTU XT (without USB) for cheap 60$ on ebay. This piece is great. i can play every instrument from wherever I like as long this instrument is sending on the right midi channel. There is a preset on the XT that let’s you do this (called live keyboards). Here’s my setup:

TuDeliscious_SetUp.jpg1024×564 110 KB

I soooo happy with this solution. I’m sequencing every synth from the octatrack and if I’m bored with the step sequencer I just play the melody on one of the keyboards and the OT is recording like a charm :slight_smile:

Go for the XT!

#17

i’m guessing an older version of this, it’s essentially the same as the Emagic(latterly Apple) 8x8 midi patchbay - perhaps with better software though - read up on Clockworks by MOTU or the Emagic [url=“http://www.potm.org/software/Unitor/”]patching soft to see if either’ll do your bidding :wink:

#18

I’m curious as to how this is setup. I have a Emagic AMT-8 that i use with the Mac to sequence my gear. Since getting the Octatrack though I’ve barely touched the Mac in almost a year. I now have a corner of the studio with the Octatrack, A4, modular and a few other pieces. This is a completely independent setup with the Octatrack as master.
I’d somehow like to integrate the other half of my studio (Mac and various synths, drum machines etc). Depending on what mood I’m in I would either use the Octatrack as the centerpiece or the Mac/Ableton or maybe even a mix of both. I’m sure there is a way of using the AMT-8 to accomplish this but I’m not sure how I would select which input is the master - Mac sending clock to everything or Octatrack as master. Of course I’d still like to be able to send midi data from a controller keyboard to either the Octatrack or Ableton but I don’t mind using 2 different controllers for this.
I did notice in Ableton that I only send midi clock to the first port on the AMT-8 and this is somehow forwarded to all other ports. Guess I need to take a look at that open source AMT-8 control panel.

#19

I have an AMT-8 also. I have all my midi gear connected to it. If I want to sequence with logic no problem but if I want to use all my elektron stuff stand alone I use this free utility

http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay/

I made a custom routing setup for octatrack as master and I can just be in hardware land. It works great. This won’t work for the poster of the thread but it will work great for your needs I think.

1 Like
#20

When you say old you mean the serial port XT? or the Mac PC?
Route anything to anywhere using the “live keyboards” preset?
That’s what I wanted to hear.
THANKS!