Midi kit selection?

So I am working on a live set using the digital trinity (OT, MD & MnM), and have a real issue with running out of space.

I am sequencing the MD from the OT for polyrhythm madness, and have hit a problem. I’ve run out of patterns!

Let me explain: the OT is sending program change to both machines. once I get to bank H pattern 16 I’m out of room (the MD and MnM both loop back to A1 when OT moves on to i1). My MnM has a +drive, so I figure I’ll just load a new snapshot while the OT fills in, but there is no +drive on the MD. The only method I know of for selecting kits on the MD is by attaching them to patterns and relying on program change messages.

Is there a sneaky way of selecting kits via midi from the OT without being tied to the pattern count?

On both monomachine and machinedrum with their +drive, you can’t load a snapshot via midi as this operation takes time and is only exposed via menu navigation on the hardware, it shuts the sound down.

Based on what I know, the only way you could pack more patterns while keeping the machines “hot” is by sending sysex data to overwrite whichever pattern in memory, which can be done on pattern by pattern basis. It works on the machinedrum but I’m not sure about monomachine.

The octatrack alone won’t be able to send such sysex buffers AFAIK.

The machinedrum has 16 tracks, so you could say split those in two and write two patterns for 8 of the tracks each on each actual pattern.

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Love meaty topics like this so watching with interest. Respect for pushing these machines to their limit!

(small thought, could you sequence the other machines from the OT rather than using their internal sequencers and patterns?)


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No, I realise this cannot be automated: the OT would take all audio duties while I have time to manually load a new snapshot. As I stated, the MD does not have a +drive (hence the problem)

So I am trying to avoid any interaction with a computer + it would mean having to re-wire the midi mid-set

all my MD voices are doubled (i’m a bit of a sound design freak)

The patterns are not really the issue. I AM sequencing the MD from the OT, but the kits are hard linked to the patterns so when I loop back to A1 (i1 on the OT) I’m loading the MD kit I used at the beginning of the set.

Thanks, but I am starting to wonder if I have bitten off more than I can chew. I am also controlling a Yamaha 01v mixer from the OT, and starting to realise that the complexity increases exponentially with each piece of hardware incorporated.

If I understand correctly, you need more than 128 Kits in your set? That sounds a bit excessive to me and I would be surprised if each of those Kits are all completely different. Maybe you should try to be more economic and try to reuse Kits?

The MD can only have 64 kits loaded at a time, so the problem cannot be that you are “tied to the pattern count [of 128]”.

You need a +Drive, or a second MD, or a rethink.

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My 2 cents : I could change Kits / Machines from OT, sending CCs thru a midi processor, mapping CCs to SYSEX.

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You do not understand me correctly (I am only using perhaps 20 kits overall). In the MD kits are tied to patterns: kit changes work instantly with the Elektron machines thanks to the seamless pattern changes between machines (sysex?). I do not have a different kit for every pattern. HOWEVER, with the OT having double the number of patterns to the MD, halfway through the set, the MD reverts to kits used earlier in the set. The suggestion that I should build a set around the idea of using the precise kit selection, settings and change points twice seems faintly ridiculous. How would that even work?

This is the sort of solution I have been looking into, but cannot seem to get very far. Is there no way to select kits directly with CCs? If not, can you recommend a (compact) MIDI transformer?

No. All Elektron instruments with sequencers use MIDI Program Change messages, not SysEx, to change patterns under external control.

The OT can control those changes in two ways:

  1. As you appear to be doing, simply mirroring the pattern change on the target machine (MD) from the source machine (OT).
  2. Putting specific and arbitrary Program Change messages into the OT’s Parts. (A Part on the OT can be considered the equivalent of a Kit on the MD.)

Since you only have 20 Kits on the MD, you only need to have 20 patterns on the MD. You could put the relevant Program Change message into the OT’s Parts. The OT has 4 Parts available in each of its 16 pattern Banks.



Do you mean using midi note data to trig patterns via the MD midi mapping (c2=A01 etc)? If so the kit change is no longer instantaneous (which is why I thought there may be some sort of proprietary messaging between Elektron machines: the program changes are lightening fast).

If there is a special ‘bespoke’ program change routine on the OT, that sounds interesting, but could fuck up my MnM sequencing (unless I can set standard & bespoke program changes to fire on different midi channels). How does this work?

edit: Ah okay, you mean in the midi note setup (bank+prog). This could be the solution. :tada:

Thank you Peter, I will have to test this for change speeds… I will update later with the results.

Yes. You can ignore the ‘BANK’ setting as the MD does not respond to this.

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Tbh I’m kicking myself for not thinking of this solution earlier. Sometimes it takes a sympathetic nod to show you what’s right in front of your nose. Thanks again

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No. I used Event Processor Plus, I can give you what you need to make it work.
I mostly used it for machine changes, same principle.

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Wow, that’s a pretty powerful bit of kit. In light of the solution pointed out by Peter (and my set-up being over complicated as it is) I might pass on it for now, but very interesting.

I’m considering buying one just to have it in my arsenal. A sort of midi Swiss army knife

Kit change from a Control Change through Event Processor Plus

F0 00 20 3C 02 00 command … F7 (sysex end)

58 YY F7 (sysex end)

Control Changes values YY are mapped to SYSEX messages, YY corresponding to the KIT number.

It is the same principle for machines change, lfo dest…

Other uses with MD : Pitch mapping

Many uses for OT :
Midi Processors with Octatrack

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Genius. You are clearly the goto person for midi madness (should get a commission from MIDI Solutions, because I’m sold).

I generally shy away from the sysex side of things despite knowing that there is real power in its depths. Maybe it’s time to take the plunge :grimacing:

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Sometimes I feel very alone on these things!
25 yrs ago I learned midi at an expensive audio school, because they didn’t spend enough money for audio : Ataris (midi) only! :joy:
At that time a friend gave me a midi processor. What is it for? Avoiding buying more expensive midi gear! :smile:
And sometimes extend functionalities drastically!


I suspect the Blokus Midihub could handle this sort of trickery as well. Alas, their Kickstarter ordering has ended (at 1034%!!!)

Interesting one ! Does it do SYSEX ?
Bomebox apparently does it too.

@moseley101 you should be able to try kits changes with MIDIOX software.