Let's talk about software distribution

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Bouncing off the Adobe Audition… poo or really poo? thread I started thinking about subscription services and software distribution practices.

I’ve just installed WaveLab from Steinberg, which had me sign up to their website (and newsletter) to download their Steinberg Download Assistant in order to download the WaveLab trial, which didn’t even install automatically via their assistant.

I try to avoid these kind of things a lot, but unfortunately it’s extremely common now. The other day I tried a piece of music software from another fairly popular company and they had me install it via an app called Pulse.

As someone who makes software and think about delivery and packaging a lot, these are ways I absolutely do not want to distribute software. (Our current setup isn’t ideal via Gumroad, but at least it’s DRM-free)

How did we get here? Why is this a good idea?

On the flip side, I love how easy Valhalla DSP’s plugins are to install. You download the installer, install it and enter the license code. That’s it. Love it.

Anyway, I’m curious to hear your thoughts about this and what kind of distribution, licensing etc that you appreciate. Also interested to hear just how many download/license/assistant/manager applications you currently have on your computer for music tools.

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Soma Reflex
#2

I suppose for one piece of software- the simpler the install the better.

But I do enjoy the Native Instruments and Arturia software management of the software- even if the install/updates are being done on the application you have to install.

I suppose I also prefer having registration done via my account with the company over potentially losing the license key. Sure I sacrifice a bit of independence from the seller for a bit of convenience- but I’m prone to losing stupid things like that

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#3

As someone that has recently had a laptop die and had to transfer everything to a new one, I hate the plugins that you need to install a thing to install a thing. So many plugins took an hour of finding the right part of the website to download the right thing and then finding a password I used 5 years ago to log in to access a key. I’ve just accepted some plugins I won’t have now, because I got so frustrated trying to find the info I needed.

Valhalla = zero problemos.

Antares = what the shit

Edit: arturia and waves actually pretty much no trouble, they’ve nailed the install a thing to install a thing.

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#4

I am reluctant to sign up for a subscription as I don’t use anything I buy on a regular basis - sometimes going months without using it - and thus feel like I’d be “wasting” the regular charge. If I were pro, it might be a different situation.

But convoluted installations are something I take into consideration when looking at products. So despite their acclaim I don’t look very seriously at Soundtoys or Kush products.

having said that, a developer for Unfiltered Audio was extolling subscriptions over on Lines as its steady income and it allows them to branch out more.

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#5

I definitely prefer that.

For freeware, I appreciate if it’s just an archive with the files I can move into my folder.

I have to admit, licensing via Ilok software feels kinda slick, though. Maybe it’s the gui…dunno.

I have a few license manager thingies installed currently (or how they call it, you know the manager soft, that lets you download the software you want) and it always feels a bit bloat. I actually did not install my IK Multimedia plugins when I got my new PC to avoid having one more bloated manager software.

I stay away from subscription services. Thought about trying that Plugin Alliance subsciption thing which gets you all from them, but that’s too much software then.

#6

The only reason for complicated processes is to keep someone within that company’s ecosystem and to hopefully cross-sell them onto other software the company makes. I much prefer logging into a site, having a simple download page that contains all the available software to me as direct DMG downloads (I’m on Mac) and license codes being sent to email for easy retrieval.

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#7

Those bloated ways to install plugins always appeared to me as an overly-expensive way to avoid that compagnies plugins end up on well-known pirate sites…
Which always end up happening anyway. But I guess that allowed them to expect a 6month-1year latency before pirates does their work.

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#8

Just bought a new PC…so have been going through this process with EVERYTHING not just music software…

By the time i got to music software, if it wasn’t a simple download, install, enter password to unlock type process then it didn’t get installed and never will, including Arturia and anything ilock…

I will never subscribe to ongoing licences, office gets the one time purchase for one licence, for the life of the pc…

I dislike the process of installing and updating software, so a simple one time install that never prompts me to upgrade suites me perfect.

#9

Valhalla = zero problemos.

Spitfire = what the shit

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#10

As a Fors happy customer/user, i’m glad to know that you are concerned by these new ways of selling/providing softwares and that you invite us to talk about it.
My take on this is pretty clear : I hate it.

Subsrciption plans for software may suit certain profiles of users, but i think they should never replace any other forms of transactions.

It really seems like a way to sell flawed products with continuous updates that are everlasting bug fixes and not additions and real enhancements.
I prefer to wait a few years between releases but with significant new contents than an annual version with new “meh” features and broken tools that worked flawlessly before.

Regarding the online installers…I can’t stand it.
I know this is where the world is going, but i really hate to be tied, linked, spied and forced to use software “that wants to optimize my experience”…

I too was obliged to install many of these download assistants.
Yes, some of them work well, but :

  • i like to make backups of backups of everything and keep older versions in case of.
  • Call me crazy, but i like my hard drives free of junk.

And on top of that, i don’t want the computer i use for creation to be connected on the net, so, any soft that would require a mandatory connection to work is a big no go.

Hope i wasn’t too long. Thanks again for your concern about this !
…And also, Fors Rules.

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#11

I am not at all a fan of installers. Native Instruments seems to handle it smoothly as does Arturia (both mentioned above). I’ve had issues with Softube crapping out among others.

The absolute worst, and I refuse to ever give them money ever again, is Waves. Breaks at every turn. Ask for more money on a yearly basis just so you can stay “version current” even though no upgrades have been done on your plugins. Then, if you don’t, you’re forced to sleuth out your version of Waves Central in which you have to download the entire catalog just to install the handful of plugins that you own. Don’t even talk to me about moving your plugins to a different folder.

Last, they create a machine ID for your system that includes the MAC address for your NIC. Why is this a problem? My laptop has no built-in NIC. I use a USB NIC.

When my plugins showed up as unlicensed when I started a new session, I fired up Waves Central to see why my licenses weren’t on my computer. There was a copy of my machine that appeared orphaned and I couldn’t move my licenses around. I had to use one of my two available recoveries for this. It happened a second time and burned my last recovery. The third time, I was supposed to wait something like 5 months before the recovery allotment reset. That’s when I started digging into it and found out about the MAC address being part of your machine ID. I had to dig out an old USB NIC that I had stopped using because it was flakey. Utterly ridiculous bullshit to deal with. Happy to never give that POS company any more money.

I definitely have a preference to install things manually. I choose where they go. I also hate having a myriad DRM-checkers and installation helpers running on my system. I know how to prevent the helpers running on startup but the DRM-checkers have to for obvious reasons.

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#12

Oh…how i hate that, i hate that so much it makes me Sith.

#13

Worst experience this year:

The crap Sony wants you to install for their Alpha cameras. First you have to login in their website, accept 100 agreements. Installer is not even an installer but a webview that wants to connect to 100 Sony servers + lots of webframeworks only to download another installer. What a nightmare. This lead me to make me sell all my Sony gear now.

So, yes, I avoid such bullshit.

For music software: At least DRM tools like iLok (?) is acceptable in terms of ease of use.

#14

Ive got 4 sony alphas and never had to install this way, i guess its a new model thing?

#15

If I have to install something to install something, I’m deeply annoyed. This is a music world thing and I hate it. You’re creating a shitty experience for all your paying customers so that a few people who were never going to pay you anyway have a slightly harder time using your software.

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#16

I really avoid every product that forces me to install extra software, register an account, iLok, subscription, tries to lock me in or anything similar without a really good reason.

Recently I had to buy a new external hard drive, my favourite wanted me to install special software to use it, I bought a different one.

I think there are cases where subscription can be appropriate, like in the education space where human interaction is required.

In cases where there is a lot of afford involved to develop a product, I like the model that you can pay once for the software and get 12 months of free updates, like Bitwig, Sketch or Sublime Text. Use the app as long as you want and when you really like the new features, you can update.

A really bad practice is what iZotope did: moving to subscription and leaving old customers behind with no benefits and no updates.

Make it easy for me to install the app and try it out. Like u-he does with a full working plug-in and occasional noise sound.

I would never reduce the value for users because you are just afraid of piracy or any other reason.

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#17

SAAS is the new cloud, embrace it or become extinct.

Nah, fuck that.

Edit: on a wider level fuck the whole concept of never owning anything and streaming/renting/subscribing, it benefits someone, but not you.

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#18

The state of software distribution is one of the (many) reasons I’m excited about going “mostly hardware” this year.

Subscriptions for things which feel like services (Spotify) “feel” ok. I think it gives a feeling of ongoing consumption (music, film). Subscriptions for things which feel like tools (Adobe, say), don’t “feel” right. I might just be old fashioned.

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#19

One thing to add: I think Elektron is doing a very good job with their software. Clean, easy, well designed.

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#20

I think there are split markets. Adobe CC is so expensive but sometimes I need a tool or two and I’m happy to pay for a month.

@Ess as you are aware it’s hard to make a living on some of these things. And it isn’t cheap to keep them working on new OS’s and platforms as you also know.

Subscriptions mean the authors can deliver value to me continuously rather than saving up features for the next major rev the following year where they can get upgrade pricing. And it means I know they will be in business in 5 years when I need this thing to keep working or need support.

The hybrid model is probably your best bet. A. Flat one time cost, 12 months updates/support, and upgrades are full price. B. Roughly a discount but subscription at let’s say .8 * A / 12 per month.

Final note for rent to own also being nice. Keep upgrade pricing but allow users to spread cost out over 2 years.

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