much more relevant there and is already being discussed there, it’s potentially an oversight. We don’t need twin discussions in two topics
when you find the time please drop a copy of the memo you’ve seen stating this was a design choice ! … if it was a design choice, they wouldn’t state now that it’s an aspect they are currently investigating, would they … 
Well to be fair this has been known from its very release. Afaik the headroom argument is a correct one and has been stated for other devices ( like syntakt) as well ( i do have proof for this but it’s a private support conversation I won’t share without consent ) . In particular in combination with overbridge but still, I don’t see how this doesn’t apply to heat as well since it is an effect ( rather than a closed circuit like syntakt if you know what I mean)
That they are looking to improve things doesn’t mean this was not intended in the design. I find it extremely hard to believe that this would be an oversight that has been there since mk1.
I do hope they add a setting that can boost the level. So when not doing extreme filter sweeps one can simply run it hotter. No idea if that is possible but it’s cool to hear that they are looking into a solution.
The headroom argument is valid for when AH+ is active. And there are ways to have control over gain staging to match the incoming signal level, I think.
What is at stake here is the volume loss when AH+ is inactive.
Only thing I could understand why there is such a loss is to sort of hide the wet volume loss do that when you activate the AH+ you don’t feel let down. Can’t think of another reason.
As there are no FX tail, I don’t really see why AH+ is not true bypass.
The reason to me seems to be what you said but not because of that reason (if that makes sense 
)If you want to do any proper A/B testing the wet level should be able to reach the dry level. If the wet level with no drive etc is much lower than the dry level, you’d need a way to boost the wet level significantly and, well then you again come into the area of hitting that max headroom with a simple filter sweep and what not.
So to make sure you can A/B in a meaningful way across the board they’ve done this I think. I’ll sometimes have to set wet level to 3 or even 4 o clock at very subtle drive settings etc. So it seems logical to me that is why it is the way it is.
But imho there should be an option to change this though.
I just tried it with the AH mk1 and there’s no considerable volume loss when it’s inactive (physical ins and outs, haven’t tried with usb). I don’t know about the AH+ though.
The AH has many gain stages that can affect the volume.
I think it’s important to understand the AH does not have ‘true bypass’. The On button switches in and out the distortion, filter and eq, but even when On is not active the signal goes through two gain stages: Input Sensitivity and Master Volume (see diagram in link below).
So blanket statements like ‘I have no signal loss when in bypass’ or ‘I have 20db signal loss even on bypass’ needs to be qualified with: what was input sensitivity set at, what was the meter for input showing at that input sensitivity and what was master volume set at.
When ‘On’ is enabled, there are quite a few additional gain stages. This explains it well:
@DaveMech has already given very good explanation of why these gain stages are useful for A/B testing.
AH is maybe a little more complex than we think initially, like many Elektron machines. 
But it sounds good so I love it. I’m not a pro, so I don’t know how ‘real, professional mastering tools’ work.
I think what makes the AH maybe more complex to understand is the whole Input Sensitivity thing.
Instead of a ‘Trim’ pot where you control the input level, you have to set this thing (Input Sensitivity) without understanding what it actually does. Presumably it’s just different levels of attenuation, but it would be good if Elektron can explain exactly what it does and by how much. Or maybe they do already - any volunteers to go and read the manual? 
very nice post!
When testing with the mk1 i was using mid input sensitivity so that it wouldn’t go into clipping. It was peaking around 2/3 of the meter and master volume was set to full. With this setting i had around 2 db volume loss when the AH was inactive.
That’s not difference that was meant when talking about a massive drop in volume though 
Compared to no heat in the chain and heat in the chain.
So running an audio source directly into a mixer versus running it through heat in bypass mode to that mixer. There will be a significant difference in volume.
I did exactly that. Heat on bypass vs no Heat in the chain.
I tried it with input sens set to high and now i only have 2db volume loss.
So i think it’s just important to go in with a level that matches one of the input sensitivity setiings. It should be as high as possible without clipping.
So basically yuo should not have the heat on bypass when its in your chain i guess? If not using, just disconnect it from the chain
I’m probably not explaining this very well 
The problem that people are having is that let’s say we have a Digitakt. We run the output of the Digitakt directly to the monitor speakers.
Now we take the Digitakt out first through heat and then from heat to the monitor speakers.
Running the Digitakt through the heat causes a significant volume drop. Once you remove the heat out of the signal chain completely (not deactivating but really completely disconnecting it), the signal is back to normal.
So this has nothing to do with the sensitivity setting. That should be set to get the level around 80% of max for best use of heat, but that’s not the problem that is being discussed.
Cheers
Well this is the problem, the volume drop is always there, period. You’d need to run an active heat with very high drive levels etc. to match the original source’s output level. And when you are using anything other than the clean boost, you can forget about subtle saturation if you want to boost it that much.
In the studio this is not a huge issue imho. In live situations, this means your signal is quite week and you’ll have to boost it after the heat on a mixing desk, which can introduce more noise.
I get mine tomorrow, really anxious to see how this plays out.
I’m not completely sure what this volume drop in bypass mode is about exactly.
I’m assuming the best way to set it up in my rig would be to put it on something like a send, or the cue out’s from my OT and keep it in “active” mode. Then I could gain stage whatever is sent that way.
As opposed to putting it on a master insert?
It’s not just in bypass. The thing is that heat itself drops the volume by quite a bit, active or bypassed. SOme were suggesting that it would be nice if it was a true bypass where the signal was not lowered, but then you run into trouble with active/non active states as I’ve explained in an earlier post.
A fix would be an option to boost the level at the input stage. This could be useful when you’re using heat in subtle settings or as compressor in live situations etc,
This sounds like it defies the purpose of a bypass a bit to me, wonder if they’re able to improve that with a software update, even if it doesn’t have true bypass. Could be optional if it’s a design choice, some kind of setting maybe?
Today I forgot to plug in my Boum and I didn’t even notice at first because the circuitry doesn’t even engage unless it’s on, the audio goes straight through the box when it’s unpowered.
I know what you mean. I ran the signal through the heat into the soundcard on bypass with high input sens. I was adjusting my signal on the source to have the levels almost peak in the heat.
Then i recorded the same signal without changing the volume on the source directly into the soundcard. 2db volume loss.
The adjusting the source level to almost peak is the key.
That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.
I just hope it doesn’t make me crazy getting good levels.
I sold a few things to get one and I really want this thing to work.
I sold a few KP3+ fighting a similar scenario
