Footswitch pedal for changing patterns?

Ok so if I have pattern 14 playing and I want pattern 15 to play in middle of a live set,
Let’s say I want my external midi controller which has 16 channels can send the PC to the pattern assigned to channel 15 to change to pattern 15,
The issue is in elektron samples how in the menu diving do I access that because it only shows midi affecting the T1-T6 tracks.
But If I go into Pattern of the menu is this where I’m going to set it up for midi channels and will it show me pattern 1 through 16 that I can setup for a midi in Channel number?

I do have a midi controller (m-audio venom with midi in and outs and upto 16 channels I can use).

A pattern on the M:S contains information for all 6 tracks, so if you want to change pattern then you only need to send one value of Program Change message.

The value of the PC message is determined as I described above and it depends on which of the six pattern banks your target pattern is in. So if, for example, you want to change to bank C, pattern 15, then the value to send is 46.

The MIDI channel number on which the message needs to be sent is determined by the PCH IN setting in the CONFIG > MIDI > IN CHAN menu of the M:S, described on page 40 of the manual.

The Venom is not particularly designed for this purpose but if you set its MIDI channel to match the channel number that I described above on the M:S then when you select a program in the range from 0 to 95 on the Venom then it should send a suitable Program Change message to the M:S.

Ok so a moment here… so just to make sure we are talking about the SAME thing. I know that each Track T1-T6 has its own pattern (1-16). But im talking about how I have copied all tracks and their patterns from PATTERN + TRIG 1 to TRIG 2 (trig pattern 1 has the intro of all 6 tracks arranged, and then Trig Pattern 2 has the same but a slight variation different to build up the music). I’m not just wanting a midi controller key external to press to make it change any single T1-T6 track pattern or Banks A - F, im wanting it to change to Trig Pattern 2 because ALL of the tracks will be already to certain BANKS BEING ON AND OFF.
Rather than external midi controller key pressed to make an individual BANK turn on or off.
Now that i think of this as you explained this, if im playing progressive dance music…
is this essentially the same exact result wehther i choose method 1 or 2?

method 1: use an external midi key press to make M:S all banks and patterns start OVER by making it switch to Pattern/Scene 2 from scene 1 and plays all the banks tracks as arranged to liking.
method 2: use an external midi key press to make M:S one individual BANK Track sample do whatever i want such as turn on or MUTE, or retrig it with a 1/8th to 1/16th notes build up.
For live performance im wanting to do things a little more manual (without pattern chaining).
Ideally, if im understanding this better or at all now will one method be easier? rather then having to press two buttons like PATTERN + 2 to make them start after pattern 1 of all bank samples arrangement ends.

right so i can see how this works out.

That is exactly what i want to do to the M:S with an external midi controller by one key press, make it go to pattern 1, or to 2, or to 3, or 4 etc or even back down to 1 If i could or wanted to do.

We are talking about the same thing, but you’re a little confused with the terminology.

  • There are 6 banks (A to F) each with 16 patterns (01 to 16).
  • Each pattern contains 6 tracks (1 to 6).
  • The M:S doesn’t have scenes.
  • If you press [PATTERN] + [T2] then you’re selecting bank B.
  • if you press [PATTERN] + [TRIG 6] then you’re selecting pattern 6 in the current bank. If the current bank is B then you’re selecting pattern B06.

Yup; you’re wanting to change from pattern 1 in a bank to pattern 2 in a bank. You can change patterns using MIDI Program Change (PC) messages.

The message required depends on which pattern in which bank you’re switching to:

  • if you want to switch to pattern A02 then you need to send a PC message with a value of 1,
  • if you want to switch to pattern B02 then you need to send a PC message with a value of 17,
    and so on until
  • if you want to switch to pattern F02 then you need to send a PC message with a value of 81.

Read the above about banks, patterns, and scenes. You can change pattern using a Program Change message sent from another device.

You can do some but not all of these things by sending MIDI Control Change (CC) messages from another device. The list of things you can do is in Appendix A (page 53) of the manual.

The other things you can only change manually on the M:S itself.

Your Venom can only do this by selecting a new program on it.

So you need a smarter MIDI controller; since all the Elektron gear works the same way then you will find a bunch of discussion all over the forum with experiences of what people use, such as:

@peterhanes My midi keyboard is only playing the chromatic notes of the M:S TRACK/BANK(sample) i select, i dont want that. I mean its doing this because either T1-T6 is set as a Midi Channel number. I want to start a PLAYBACK of entire arranged sequence of PATTERN TRIG 1 and maybe have it start playback of pattern + trig 2 back and forth when i want it too.

i do have a MIDI MOUSE foot pedal. so when some users speak of starting from Model:Samples a Value 0 = Pattern A01 , i am talking about the PATTERN + TRIG button 1 (some may use it as a project or a scene) which plays back all my banks as arranged with samples. I want to switch it to Pattern + TRIG button 2 so that it plays back all the banks with samples arranged as they are because it will progress with the music. Is this the same Pattern in terms you are speaking of, because i dont want to confuse my goal with trying to just get a single bank pattern to switch. My goal is the entire banks in a PATTERN 1, to switch to {PATTERN 2 (by the usual two button presses of PATTERN + TRIG 1 and then PATTERN + Trig 2 by the use of a single foot switch tap or a keyboard key press to switch it from playing back pattern 1 to switch to pattern 2 (which contains all banks arranged already). For example i copied all banks and patters from Trig 1 to Trig 2. Then i setup trig 2 with new variation of a bank on mute or maybe it turns on.

I know MIDI MOUSE worked with ableton live but im using an Elektron Model:Samples, and an external midi controller keyboard.

The Venom does not have the ability to send a Start or Stop message to the M:S.

However, once the M:S has started playing, the Venom can send MIDI Program Change messages to the M:S to change to a new pattern, as I described previously:

You can do this with the MIDI Mouse if you follow the instructions in its manual and make the correct settings on the M:S.

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Right so what I want to know first is since the m:s to change from (whatever banks are in or muted to me won’t I assume be the concern here because I’ll have those already arranged with each sound sample in each track(bank) arrange in its pattern for each sample track in A-F, but if I use the the midi mouse or even the venom to send a PC (0-95 or in venom 0-95 might be of course a message sent and on it might be some random sound library item value sent to the M:S but I won’t be selecting sound or track samples or programs in the M:S,**I instead want to be sending a Macro in essence that presses the M:S buttons PATTERN + TRIG 2 step button once by press of one CC IF possible.
I attached a small video clip to show clearly what I want to do. :slightly_smiling_face: IMG_0606.MOV on Vimeo

Or if it just easier if I can press a venom key to make the permanent bank PITCH knob (to get to a next music note live performance) of the note sequencing to change pitch and stay on the pitch note musically and it’ll continue to sequence the note already in its arrangement with one key press from my midi venom or maybe the m:s without turning or twisting the pitch knob?

Let me start by apologising if I’ve misunderstood you. But … from what I read in your last post, and hear in your video, you don’t appear to understand that banks and tracks are different things.

I suspect this comes from banks and tracks being selected by the same six buttons (T1-T6) which are used to select Tracks 1-6 (when used with the TRACK button) and Banks A-F (when used in combination with the PATTERN button)

I’d like to offer comment on the last part of your first paragraph, but I don’t think you’ll get it if you don’t understand that tracks and banks are different.

Banks can’t be muted, tracks can.

Sound samples are selected to into a track, not a bank

Tracks are T1 -T6, not A-F

The 6 Banks A-F are each a collection of 16 patterns, and within each of those patterns there are 6 tracks T1-T6.

Maybe you already get this (and I’m just being picky about language) if so, I apologise, but I wanted to be sure you understand banks and tracks before I comment on the question at the end of your first paragraph.

What you are describing in your video is a change of pattern (from pattern A14 to pattern A15, because you are in bank A, as shown on the screen of the M:S). You can do this by sending a MIDI Program Change message from another device to the M:S.

You can send a PC message from the Venom by changing its program. You cannot do so by pressing a key on the Venom (unless you have an additional MIDI processing device between the Venom and the M:S).

You could also send a MIDI PC message from the MIDI Mouse, by connecting it to the MIDI In port of the M:S and pressing the Up or Down button.

Just try it. It’s the only way to find out how the system works. It won’t mess up any sounds in the M:S; it will only change the pattern.

Do you mean that you want to transpose one or all of the sounds on the M:S using an external device?

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Yes transpose essentially a baseline note so it resumes playing the sequence but with a transposed bass note up or down musically.

Also if it’s in a bank, it’s still playing all the Banks that are On or unmuted and each bank (which is what I want) and each bank has its program sample assigned resuming their sequences, and all are in project 1(pattern + trig 1), and they I would want just switched to project 2(pattern + trig 2). Because the bass line note changes in pattern trig 2.

I’ll try to see if my Venom by choice of Global Midi mode or just a midi channel can send a Program Change (PC) to the M:S.

Right, the purpose of the terms understood and functionality of each (bank versus tracks) is understood though.

My explanation sorry was not exactly clear but that is what i meant. Each track has its sound sample already designated. I meant that all tracks are playing with their already setup sequenced arrangements in steps.

Implementation or Guide for my Venom:
Venom User Guide

Legend for the guide is:

Well the reason i described using BOTH of those terms of the buttons is to make sure i cover my Arse fomr explanation reasons to reach my goal because literally on its face the button label below for example T1-T6 shows its own BANK Letter/MUTE label below each Track button just so you know which item on the M:S i am using. So all tracks T1-6 are occupied with its assigned sound with each its own pattern, or would you like me to be more semantics and call it a Program on each Track? either way its a sound put on to each track. No worries about picky language and thats good technically to be precise to avoid mistakes. thumbs up.

issue here is it might be that i dont have a device that can send the proper type of CC or PC to the M:S even though i have the M:S that can receive the changes.

Well, I know nothing about the venom, but from the manual snippet you posted
looks like it should do the job.

Sounds like @PeterHanes knows both devices, I’ll leave further comment to him.

If you’re still talking about changing patterns using MIDI Program Change messages, then you have two devices that can do that:

It’s probably easier to work in Single Mode and set the Global MIDI channel number on the Venom. You need to set it to the same number that is set on the M:S for the PCH IN setting in the CONFIG > MIDI > IN CHAN menu of the M:S, described on page 40 of the manual.

As you said I don’t know exactly if I had the m:s in proper configuration hahahah but it’s working to do the midi mouse method:

But now this must means as u mentioned if I can use the venom keyboard midi to send a key message from 1-16 to the M:S is could change the pattern from whatever key I press to that pattern trig key number

That’s great!

You cannot use the Venom’s keys to change the pattern on the M:S without buying additional hardware. The only thing that would work is to change program on the Venom and then the M:S can also change its pattern.

As far as I know, you cannot easily transpose a sequence in the way you want with the equipment you have.

Ok, I was able to test both devices and it’s working but ideally I prefer the foot midi mouse method because it wouldn’t make sense to use the venom with all of its sound libraries and abilities i would not want to occupy it entirely up for just this single program change use. So this helps everything move forward productively.
Now I just need too get a hub midi in and thrus expander to make use of all my other devices.


Thank you.

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