Expressive E Osmose

sicijk · 2024-01-19T10:52:54.215Z

KaOsphere:

my H90 is locked behind the osmose to get a “better” sound…

do you mean on the FX or tone side of it? Because as soon as the Chroma Console arrives, Im going to hook them together

KaOsphere · 2024-01-19T10:56:37.854Z

Most often its reverb, since I always found the matrix one to sound a bit metallic for my taste and wave shapping/overdrive to get more harmonics and a thicker sound…But that’s not set in stone.

tendingtropic · 2024-01-20T09:36:43.996Z

i don’t see the big issue with osmose internal sounds! i like them!

thetechnobear · 2024-01-21T12:29:28.196Z

I don’t think there is an issue, no synth suits everyone tastes/style, esp. one that has ‘character’ as the Osmose does.

I guess, given everyone (k, social media) labelling as a game changer, it was in danger of being a bit overhyped - but in fairness, there were lots of demos before release, so everyone knew what was on offer.

thats why I said, the ‘honeymoon’ is over, I think, people are now discovering for themselves how its ‘character’ fits (or doesn’t) into what they make - natural progression really.

sure, there is a little room for improve from EE in the firmware for it to be used as external MPE controller… though even there, Id not expect anything too radical.

note: EE had a lot of time to refine 1.0 of firmware/presets due to covid and manufacturing delays, which meant it was in a very solid state at release.

fermuscolo · 2024-01-21T20:43:06.752Z

There are synths that cover a lot of ground, Osmose not, There are synths that easily can program sounds or adjust basic parameters, Osmose not, There are synths that don’t have bugs at 5 times less the price, But I’m regret that I buy one? Well not If I had the money Ill buy another.

GurtTractor · 2024-01-22T00:08:03.026Z

Random idea: What if someone managed to train an AI to create EaganMatrix patches based on natural language prompts?

Bignill · 2024-01-22T09:03:53.980Z

Yeah, like a Synplant 2 with an expressive keyboard

g3o2 · 2024-01-22T10:18:16.965Z

This is feasible in terms of data structure because the EM, or any synth engine for that matter, is basically a collection of links between nodes, each link being characterized by W, X, Y, and Z.

However, to train something meaningful (to a user) based on existing presets and ideally without destroying the user’s ears when applying the model, someone would have to enrich those links between nodes with relevant and relatively detailed metadata:

What does each link contribute in terms of broader sound aspects such as acoustic, percussive, metallic, pluck, pad, etc. ?
Which parameter range for any given link keeps the output musical (vs ear breaking noise)?

Reverse-engineering a preset like this takes a lot of time. Right now, some metadata are available at the preset level but practically none at the link level. So if you asked a model for an analog pad, the output data space would be quite vast and therefore susceptible to noise. Remember the strong recommendation to reduce volume when programming the EM.

GurtTractor · 2024-01-22T10:41:40.428Z

I think it’s definitely going to be the future of very complex physical modelling type synthesis, one way or another. Some kind of hybrid natural language/manual control interface would be great, so you could get the broad strokes of what you want quickly with a prompt then fine tune it.

g3o2 · 2024-01-22T12:25:45.485Z

EM is a modular synth. If you don’t want to give up on the modular aspect and its flexibility, large language models will only be able to act as a semantic layer / a translator and provide templates or constrained random presets, within an error margin.

Someone would still have to develop this layer. Currently, there are no signs of Haken or Expressive E jumping on this ship.

Such an approach will be relevant for every synth algorithm including FM, wavetable synthesis, etc. The question is one of accessibility and learning curve.

thetechnobear · 2024-01-22T14:49:43.947Z

not going to happen anytime soon

anyways, EE chose the haken engine for what it is… its not going to change anytime soon.
Id say it’s much more likely, that EE, would deliver another synth, that’d just use the key technology but with a more ‘familiar’ synth engine… perhaps similar to the original Roli.

in the mid-term, one exciting area is what we know Haken are working on, which is a new ‘synthesis module’ for eagan matrix. (*) . they have been showing this off at Superbooth for last couple of years… but its hard to tame

yes, there is talk of a new EM editor… but last time I spoke to them, it did NOT sound like it was close…and Id also be surprised, if from a users perspective its much different. ( ** )

as for EE, there are limits to what they could do in their firmware, they are pretty at the limit at what they can expose of the EM.
due to EMs nature, it’d not be easy to expose much more.

I know… perhaps sounds like Im being conservative, but rather I see it as realistic, given the size of the teams involved and resources they have.
ofc, they might be doing stuff, and keeping it quiet… but they also might not

( * ) consider this a new ‘oscillator’ for the existing EM, EM is fundamentally unaltered.

( ** ) mostly this sounds like moving the EM away from Max/MSP for support reasons… though, I’ll say Haken themselves think Max has been very good for them, which is why they are not in a huge rush away from it.
Id not be surprised if the resulting application, looked pretty similar, but with just a few QoL changes…
id be amazed, if the matrix style was changed… as this is the design of the synth engine, its not just a ui representation.
(Ive reverse engineered most of the editor… so I know how it all ‘ticks’ !)

izzymonkey · 2024-01-25T03:12:39.639Z

Just wanted to share an experiment I made with Osmose a couple months ago. It’s amazingly conducive to playing with other instruments–inspirational, really. The nuance of control can excite deliciously subtle interplay with other voices.

rklem · 2024-01-27T16:57:33.281Z

Beautiful, thanks for sharing!

Did you use mostly envelope followers (in addition to MIDI) in your 200e system for the interplay, or is there also pitch detection involved (like a 232)?

I subscribed to your channel. Looking forward to watching more…

izzymonkey · 2024-01-29T14:40:17.545Z

I appreciate your kind feedback and hope to share some new things on the channel before too long. Thanks for taking a moment to watch!

MIDI - yes, indeed, primarily to give the “cascade” of accompanying notes their pitch centers.

Envelope follower on the 230e gets a little slew treatment and then influences a function generator. Another way I introduced lag & shape was to use the envelopes from the Spectral Processor, In an attempt to build in some behaviors that reacted to not just pitch but amplitude + timbre as well.

Speldosa · 2024-01-30T14:34:34.579Z

Ok, after experimenting some more, I can definitely state that, for me, the Osmose needs an effect box to sound good. When using it together with my Analog Heat +FX (or in a pinch, even the drive on the Syntakt), I quite like the sound. So, I would say it really benefits from some heavy saturation/distortion and then a good reverb (I really haven’t been able to put the reverb in Osmose to any good use, and besides, I don’t want to saturate the reverb signal).

Anyone have tips on other effect boxes that might work with Osmose? I want to use my Analog Heat +FX together with my Syntakt, so preferably something else. I’ve tried the H90 on other instruments, and I really like the reverbs, but I can’t remember there being a lot of good saturation/distortion effects. Right now, Chroma Console is probably on the top of my watchlist.

styphonthal · 2024-01-30T23:42:24.632Z

You could use overdrive/distortion guitar pedals.

Some of the bitcrusher pedals can also add saturation on mild settings.

llorenzo · 2024-02-02T09:52:29.691Z

Hi another Ableton question.
Has anyone fiugured out how to use the new expression control coming with live 12?
It seems to behave diffrent as it combines the slide expression int the pressure expression. The pressure expression thus has a jump.
Anyone checked that?

fermuscolo · 2024-02-05T10:22:56.424Z

Wow,I didn’t tried I dont have 12 version but doesn’t sound as logical. Maybe there’s an option to do that but even in Seaboard is not desired. If you can’t find the solution you have to replace it by Expression Control+ is a M4L device very similar but you have to convert it to MPE but is not too difficult to do.

g3o2 · 2024-02-24T20:33:22.545Z

Nice video by Anthony Marinelli on the Osmose, presented by Joshua Madoff, who is a well-known recent Continuum and Continuumini performer:

icaria36 · 2024-02-25T08:36:54.617Z

I should quit my job to have time to learn all what this instrument offers. Or dump Bitwig and the Polyend Play+ who also are black wholes of possibilities and technique if you have the time.

So many good choices.