I have the same question as @digimatt and it sounds like you know the answer. Do you mind walking us through a simple scenario, like your muting example, where you would add a lock trig on top of an existing note trig and then point out how it’s different than using a parameter lock on the note trig to perform the mute? Thanks!
It’s a lot quicker. So for live situations it’s actually quite handy to be able to mute and unmute note trigs without losing the parameter locks.
The other scenario would be to remove the note being triggered but keeping the parameter locks on that step.
I think the manual explicitly states it so that there’s no confusion about the trigless lock. It otherwise might look like you can’t replace a note trig with a trigless lock.
Mind you, both are types of trigs as stated in the manual, and a sequencer step can only have 1 trig applied at a time.
I really hope Elektron find out the way to fix this, im using 1.08 and its very annoying and i think im gonna play like this and figured out how to hacked this bug until they upload the new update… Anyway, I remember that my DT came with 1.06 and it works fine, maybe if you migrate to this OS you will be able to sync your DT without any crashes. In that moment I use my DT as a master, sync with other 2 synths and works fine.
I understand what you’re saying and am fully aware of how I can use blank trigs (if I had them I would).
I went back and had a scan through the manual to check and it says
THE TRIG PAGE
to specify the general trig actions for the active track. Use the
knobs to change settings. Note that parameter locked trig settings will override the gener
So first of all parameter locked trigs override general so no mention of two trigs on one step not being possible .
Place note trigs on the sequencer using the sixteen
keys. To add a lock
. Lock trigs may be entered on any step of the
sequencer, including ones containing note trigs. Quickly pressing the
of any of the trigs entered will remove the trig. Pressing a
key of a trig and
holding it slightly longer will prepare the trig for editing, rather than removing it.
Next it says trigs may be entered on any step including note trigs and follows by saying pressing a key and holding it prepares it for editing, still no mention of 2 trigs not occupying the same step.
Parameter locks enable all trigs to have their own unique parameter values. The note trigs
of an audio track can, for example, have different pitch, amp or filter settings. It is possible
to parameter lock all parameters found on the PARAMETER pages, and you can apply
parameter locks to all types of tracks.
In GRID RECORDING mode, press and hold the
key of a trig and then adjust the
parameters you want to lock using the
knobs to apply parameter locks. The
graphics on the screen becomes inverted for the locked parameter and shows the locked
parameter value. The
key of the locked trig will begin to flash, to indicate that the
trig now contains a parameter lock.
Enter a lock trig by pressing
. With a lock trig, you can modulate the
sound without trigging a note. A lock trig is indicated with a yellow
So I can lock all parameters found in the parameter pages and apply parameter locks to all tracks, no mention of trigless locks being different.
Thats all the info I can find that is relevant to trigless locks in the manual, no mention that two trigs cant occupy the same space or that a trigless lock cant be edited when placed on a note trigs.
----------In this section it’s explained that there are 2 types of triggers. It’s stated here what those differences are.
7.4 TRIG TYPES
You can use two types of trigs, note trigs and lock trigs, in the RECORDING modes. Note
trigs trig Sounds or MIDI notes on the chosen track while lock trigs can be used to apply
parameter locks without trigging notes. Note trigs are indicated by red [TRIG] keys and
lock trigs are indicated by yellow [TRIG] keys. Unlit [TRIG] keys indicates steps that does
not contain any trigs
------------ As it specifies, [TRIG] keys indicate if and what kind of trigger is being used. A lock trig and a note trig are both a type of trig. So you can choose what type of trigger you want the [TRIG] key to be.
- PANEL LAYOUT AND CONNECTIONS
13 [TRIG] keys are used for entering or removing sequencer trigs, and parameter locks, in
combination with the DATA ENTRY knobs.
---------- It’s not about what is specifically noted what it cannot do, it’s about what it can do. Otherwise the manual would be an infinite amount larger.
So now we come back to: “Lock trigs may be entered on any step of the sequencer, including ones containing note trigs.”
Which in fact they can, but since a sequencer trig occupies 1 [TRIG] it will of course overwrite the note trig. With the added positive outcome of retaining all parameter locks (if any were applied).
Nowhere does it state that you can enter 2 sequencer trigs on 1 trig. Which would be the equivalent of trying to put 2 audiocable jacks into 1 single input hole.
Other than this I’m unsure what it is you want to accomplish here? It’s just the way the sequencer works. Hope this helped… And check the workaround I posted earlier in this thread by moving a lock trig on top of another trig by using micro timing. It might bring you close to what you want to do.
As far as I can tell you can have a trig and a lock trig on top of each other, but as the manual states the locked trig will overwrite a regular trigger.
Here’s an example of how I use this:
I’ve got a 16 step sequence going on, and lets say I have trigs on steps 4 and 12. Now let’s say I want the 12 trigger to have an LFO modulating the Filter Frequency. I can either plock it directly to the trigger, or I can place a lock trigger next to it on either 11 or 13 and microtime it “on top” of the 12 trigger.
Here’s the cool part: use Trig conditions on either trig will result in a variance so only one will play at a given time. So now my LFO will only trigger 37% of the time, on a 4/4 basis, etc.
I feel like this is one of the ways they wanted us to use these trigs creatively. Unless you use Trig conditions it’s always going to play the lock trig over the standard trig based on their architecture.
The benefit of using a locked trig with trig conditions is you can always have a standard trig as an “anchor” point, essentially.
Lock trigs are also really cool if you have a sound that has a long tail. If the sample plays over your whole 16 step sequence, you can use a standard trig on step 1 to trigger the sample and then put lock trigs on the other steps to modulate the already playing sample without having to retrigger it.
Thanks for your input, I am aware of how usefull trigless locks are when place between note trigs, my issue lies with their use on note trigs.
I am also aware that two sequencer notes cannot play at the same time and I dont expect them to, for instance a trigless lock with a 1/4 condition and a one octave note change attatched would not try to make the sequencer do more than one thing at the same time as the note is being triggered anyway, it would give it two sets of parameters to perform in turn depending on which is relevant, obviously this would be in those situations where the note trig allready has a condition attatched. It is this kind of function I expected when I read trigless locks could be added to note trigs, an ability to interact with the note trig condition.
I noticed after saving project, hitting stop twice to set sequence back to the first bar erases the sequence, but the sounds are still intact.
Another problem. Scale resolution for a individual track won’t work…it switches all track to the same Scale number. I’m trying to set my hat track for triplets…but the scale sets to all tracks.
i dont think the dt has individual scale per track, people on the board mention often that this is missing an a big downside to the dt.
Thanks man. Thats really annoying
All of my old patterns bug out now. I can’t record new data on old patterns from before the update. This has happened with every update. I have to delete them all again. There’s no way to back up anything so it’s all been a waste of time. I seriously can’t touch this thing without wanting to smash it with a hammer.
You can back up the patterns and the sounds now though
Only been using since 1.05 and skipped 1.07 but is the random hanging midi note and sample track thing a common well known problem or do i need to raise a ticket? There is a thread but not many posts…
Symtom is that i get a randomly generated low C sent down the midi cable to a sub phatty (often when switching patterns) the only way to stop it is hit stop a few times or it just drones on…
Even in projects not using the note C…its always that low C…same with chromatic mode on some samples…just hangs…its also more frequent on projects with alot of plock automation…like the dt has too much to do and spits out a endless note with no note off… random and annoying…
Starting to shit me…
If its a well known issue im sure Elektron are working on it and i will leave them 2 get on with a fix and working on OB…if not i will raise a ticket or sell…thats just sloppy and makes it useless for anything complex…
Also ive been a beta tester for a moog product and the process was no different than this…except i agreed to and signed up to the moog scenario, and this is simply the Elektron business model…all consumers will buy in at beta testing phase.
It depends on what type of synth if it is locked in program changes or not.
And if the channels on both machines are identical (= in which case the problem occurs)
I had an issue with the LFO earlier today. Setting up the LFO BPM from 16 to 8 on track 7 would lower the BPM on every track (so my track 8 which already had a BPM of 8 would have a BPM of 4). Further adjustments of the BPM on any tracks would result in lowering or upping the BPM of every other track. Restarting the machine solved the issue. I didn’t notice if the bug was only visual or also had real repercussions on the LFO speed as I was at the beginning of a project.
So I think this is a known issue but since 1.08 every time I start the DT from Ableton it never plays the very first note of the audio tracks. The midi tracks are fine. Is there a way to fix this or just have to wait for new update?
You can microtime it one notch to the right so it’s not “on grid” but other than that we’ll have to wait for the update