Confused about Kits/Projects/Sounds etc

Hello E-team,

New Elektron/A4 user here :slight_smile:

Until now everything goes fine unless one thing that drives my finger to headscratching…

I have not yet understand how exactly is structured the Kits/Projects/Sounds/saving in A4 and i ll try to explain below:

I was working in a loop several hours and i saved it in an open slot under the name of “aldro” (Funktion - Kit - Save Kit)

After a while i changed some sounds in the tracks and starting experimenting with something new that i saved it in another open slot under the name of “aldro 2”

When i tried to work again in the first loop “aldro” i realised that all sounds in tracks were replaced by the sounds in “aldro 2”

Could you please someone explain with simple words how the structure in A4 is working regarding the Kits/Projects/Sounds.

Thanks!

If by loop you mean pattern it sounds like it is the relationship between kits and patterns that is confusing you. If I understand you correctly you expect your pattern to be stored as part of your kit. This is not how it works.

A project contains patterns and kits. But they are separate from each other. A pattern is not part of a kit. Nor is a kit part of a pattern.

The relationship betweem them is that each pattern has one of your kits assigned to it. Example:

  1. In pattern A, load Kit 1 and place some trigs. Pattern A will now use Kit 1.
  2. In pattern B, load Kit 2 and place som trigs.
  3. Switch back and forth between pattern A and B and notice how the kits also switch.
  4. In pattern C, also load Kit 1. Then do some changes to the sounds in your kit.
  5. Switch back to pattern A. Notice how the changes you did to Kit 1 on pattern C also affect what you hear on pattern A. That is because both patterns have the same kit assigned.

Also worth noting is that a kit contains a full “copy” of the sounds you load to it. That means that if the same sounds are loaded to Kit 1 and Kit 2 and you then change something in your sounds in Kit 1, the sounds in Kit 2 will be unaffected.

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In that regard, i should find my previous loop (kit) “aldro” if i load it to a different pattern?
like patttern B?

Because now i listen only to “aldro 2” when i load “aldro” in pattern A (the same pattern i was using all time now

hi aldro. Nice to help you . Will do my best my english is not good.

Look, first of all take in mind this : in analog four , next time you want to do something do this:

Step 1 : use an empty pattern , this is very important!, EMPTY PATTERN !! i mean with empty pattern NOT USED pattern. For example F-1 (bank group F , pattern 1) . If you have F-1 empty , use it.

Step 2: open/load/create your sounds in each track (track 1-2-3 and 4 if you want to use them all).

Step 3 : create a sequence , press record and create your beat/loop and press play to check that is sounding something in the sequencer ( THIS IS IMPORTANT )

Step 4 : save kit (for example aldro 1)

Okey , now if you want to modify something don´t use the same pattern and if possible don´t use the same KIT . So , definitely use new pattern again and new kit again.

Now repeat the previous 4 steps but in F-2 (new pattern 2)

Now is the moment where you can modify your sounds (KIT = SOUNDS) or your pattern and save your new modified sounds (KIT) in “aldro2” .

Look , KIT = sounds and only sounds.
Patterns= SEQUENCES are AUTOMATICALLY SAVED in analog four . When you create some sequence (step 3) all that sequence (pattern) is automatically recorded/saved and linked with the KIT you are using in that pattern . Thats the A4 philosophy.

i want to show you a very important TIP about how copy/paste patterns :

on the A4 you can copy n paste between patterns without switching in between! BANK + TRIG + COPY will copy and BANK + TRIG + PASTE will paste to the location which the TRIG is pressed

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Thank you Sixto,

If i am undestanding correctly, i lost my first sequence/loop/pattern because i started modified the sounds in the linked kit without switching first to a new pattern?

But since we are speaking for Kit=Sounds where is now my first kit and how i can retrieve it?
Should i use a new pattern and load it?

I really feel like dump asking these things but its the first time i work with this kind of structure.

dear aldro don´t worry about questions , here everybody have questions , don´t feel dump . I had the same problem like you and finally i solved (don´t know if by myself or reading in forums hehe) but i solved , so no worry , you will answer your questions with practice . Beleave me. And at begining this analog four is unfriendly as hell but few days / hours practicing you will feel very satisfied with your “experimentation”.

Let me know if i can chat/talk with you via skype or something and will help you better because i have problems with my english here. I want to make a videotutorial about this too.

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I’d like to petition Elektron to repackage the A4 so that the first thing you see when you open the box is a sheet of paper that says DON’T GET TOO ATTATCHED TO YOUR FIRST SONG CUZ YOU’RE GONNA ERASE IT ACCIDENTALLY

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Lol!

Learning curve can be a bit steep but once you get the hang of how things work it’s really easy and fast work flow.

Off topic: This should be done on Octatrack packaging as well. I’m probably not the only one who has reloaded a part by accident.

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Off topic: This should be done on Octatrack packaging as well. I’m probably not the only one who has reloaded a part by accident.[/quote]
For OT, they should add a copy of Merlin’s guide as well!

It;s official :slight_smile:

Hi,

Just picked up an A4 MKII. If you change the sound on a track, it changes that sound in all patterns.

What if I want to copy pattern 1 to pattern 2 and change the sound of pattern 2 dramatically, while keeping the sounds in pattern 1 as they were?

This topic has discussed many times already. Use the search function and get enlighted. E.g. here: Confused about Kits/Projects/Sounds etc

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Dear Elektron Users,

I’ve read a lot of threads and tried a lot of things by myself but got stuck by the following situation:
I am not able to send program change from 1 to X and changing my “kit” like in the order I saved it in the kit-folder. I have for example 11 Kits á 4 Track-Sounds and I want them to stay in the order I saved and named them but when I send programs change bank1 prg1 I land at kit68 in my kit folder. I know that it`s my mistake how I saved it on the device but I am not able to change that.
I can’t find out how to assign A01 to Kit1, A02 to Kit2 and so on.

Do I really need to save Kits to Programs?

I hope someone gets my intention and I am not lost with this.
Thank you guys a lot. If there is a thread, which describes my problem, please give me a hint.

Best, Willi

Program change messages don’t change Kits, they change Patterns - Patterns can be linked to any Kit (even by a 1 to 1 unique relationship) but kits can exist without being used unless they are tied to a pattern by having a pattern with any content in it - this pattern will retain the link to the last loaded kit - if you clear the pattern it will not save the kit association previously linked with the pattern

try the manual - the pattern kit link is explained in there and in many threads

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Thank you @avantronica.
I get what you mean. My problem is maybe a little bit different, because in this setup I don’t even use patterns. What my problem is, is that the “pattern number” differs to the program change number. So If I recall program 01 in DAW it recalls pattern 114 for example. I don’t get it, why it doesn’t do it like 1-1 2-2- 3-3.

Sorry for bothering again with this.

That sounds really strange. MIDI program change messages 0-127 should select pattern 1-128 (starting with A01).

I would try a fresh project (just to be sure). Setup pattern A01 to some kit and A02 to another and then try to send MIDI program change messages to switch between them.

Sounds like you are possibly still confused about kits and patterns … I’d have expected you to say G02 in this example (the pattern for 114) - otherwise it is strange as said to have mapped program change messages so weirdly unless your daw does this

If you are not using patterns then you basically won’t be able to change kits (unless patterns contain something to force the kit association) - I am guessing you may want to read up on this pattern/kit/sound aspect again