Having a weird issue with my HS and digitone keys, where when I set the midi channels exactly I lose pitchbend and aftertouch, but when I set the HS to omni I get the pitchbend and aftertouch back, but then it just triggers all over the rest of the gear I’m trying to sequence separately, video here can probably explain better than I can https://photos.app.goo.gl/7GjcDyhVnEym4tx18
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I just hit an issue which is an absolute show stopper. I might have to return the Hydrasynth desktop, very disappointed.
It doesn’t seem to be possible to sequence the Hydrasynth desktop from an external sequencer “properly”. The Hydrasynth completely ignores the amp envelope release stage settings and cuts the envelope immediately at the note off MIDI message. No release at all! Unbelievable. Triggering a note through the desktop pads sounds completely different as the release stage is followed through properly. My guess is the Hydrasynth MIDI implementation interprets the note off release value, if it is set to 0: no release.
The funky thing is that when I enable MPE in the system settings, the setting of the release stage of the envelope is followed through when triggering a note by MIDI. But now of course the Hydrasynth responds to all MIDI channels at once.
This is the first synth I have come across that behaves like this, a real pity. I will have to sleep over this one before I sell it. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. After all the Hydrasynth is a wonderful instrument.
Update:
Used my Hermod’s USB host device to connect to the Hydrasynth. This works … now the amp release values I set in the patch are followed properly. Using the MIDI from the Hermod doesn’t work (neither does the MIDI from my Schrittmacher). Sounds like a bug to me. At least I can continue…
UPDATE (final): Issue of Hydrasynth amp release envelope finally resolved.
As far as I can see there is a slight difference in behavior when dealing with all note off messages with the Hydrasynth compared to my other synths.
My good ol’ fashioned Roland A-880 was to blame. Changing the setting of MIDI message filter, input 7 value: whether or not to output all note off message, fixed the issue.
I am not sure exactly what is happening but the Hydrasynth responds differently now.
I don’t have a MIDI protocol analyzer handy, still waiting for the MRCC Midi Router Control Center to materialize. Now I need to check this different setting of the A-880 doesn’t mess up my other synths over MIDI 
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Good to hear ! I look forward to the details on this. It tripped you up for a while and no doubt it can happen to others too, so detail on the cause and resolution will be a good tip for everyone. Thank you for following up, and pushing the limits on your HS.
I take it you’re going to be keeping your HSD !? Maybe this can be a bit of a bonding experience with your HS.
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I’d be interested to read about ideas for using the pads on the HS Desktop for microtonal music creation.
This could be through the use of the Keytrack percentage parameter of the Oscillators, or by using the microtonal scales feature new in release 1.5 , or by another method if you have one (like for instance using the step mode of the LFOs somehow).
The HSD has only 24 pads (with polyphonic aftertouch!) so that creates a limitation on the one hand. You can change octaves, but for instance using a quarter tone system, let’s say with a Keytrack percentage of 50%, means you only have a one octave keyboard.
Being more selective of the microtonal values selected would help stretch the 24 pads. Limitations sometimes bring benefit.
Obviously the HS Keyboard version (that’s what i have) could be used microtonally, but I’m really interested in how the HSD pads can be used.
The other aspect to all this is using a microtonal scheme together with the arpeggiator. (Glen Darcey mentions this in the most recent Perfect Circuit Livestream.) As i recall Darcey suggests changing scales while the arpeggiator is running, which might give some very interesting effects with a good combination of micro scale construction, and arpeggiator setups.
We had a bit of a chat about microtuning on the Lumatone thread, where the idea of working with subsets of the pitch set for a given tuning was brought up. So for example instead of trying to map all 43 tones of the Harry Partch 43-tone scale, you’d just map the 12 notes you want the most out of those 43 tones to your keyboard.
I’m not sure exactly how Scala files can be imported into Hydrasynth, but there are actually two formats - .scl (main tuning file) and .kbm (keyboard mapping file). I believe the .kbm file is what needs to be edited to choose the desired subset but I’m not 100% sure.
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The 24 pads might be enough depending on the chosen subset of pitches.
Even within standard 12TET tuning, I understand there are settings to restrict pad pitches to 7 note subsets (eg. major scale) or even 5 (minor pentatonic scale).
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I have a HSD on order. Anyone know if could combine it with an external ribbon, like the Zorx Ribbon Controller https://www.zorxelectronics.com/ribboncontroller, to mimic the ribbon fun on the HSK?
I assume you mean with the CV in on the HSD.
If so you have the two CV ins, but you then can use them completely flexibly through the mod-matrix. See the mod-matrix section towards the end of the on-line manual to see all the destinations that you can modify with those inputs.
I don’t think you’ll be able to make it exactly like all the features with the HSK’s built in ribbon, but you could do similar things. (I’d have to think about it some.) You should also look at the other functions on the Zorx, like the pressure button — i wish the pressure sensor was on the ribbon.
I’d wonder if it makes sense from cost consideration. The Zorx is only $100 less than the difference in cost between the HSD and the HSK.
Thanks for this idea; i was not aware of the Zorx Ribbon Controller before.
ADDED: The HSK ribbon controller has three modes —pitch bend, mod-matrix source, and theremin. The first two I think you should be able to do without much issue. Having it work like the theremin I think is going to be a problem. The theremin reserves a voice all for itself, so you have 7 voices left for the rest if you are in polyphonic mode. I’m not seeing how you can do this — anyone else want offer ideas on how to do this ?
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Final update: I captured the MIDI traffic using MIDI-OX and it is now very clear what is happening. Here is the trace, I annotated the moment I enabled/disabled the Roland A-880 filter.
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
**Roland A-880 MIDI message filter ALL NOTE OFF enabled**
**Hydrasynth release envelopes behaves as expected**
0004B5AA 2 -- 96 4A 1A 7 D 5 Note On
0004B5AB 2 -- 96 4E 3E 7 F# 5 Note On
0004C42E 2 -- 86 4A 00 7 D 5 Note Off
0004C42F 2 -- 86 4E 00 7 F# 5 Note Off
0004C5F7 2 -- 96 42 36 7 F# 4 Note On
0004C5F8 2 -- 96 45 25 7 A 4 Note On
0004D29D 2 -- 86 42 00 7 F# 4 Note Off
0004D2B3 2 -- 86 45 00 7 A 4 Note Off
0004D644 2 -- 96 42 3A 7 F# 4 Note On
0004D645 2 -- 96 42 00 7 F# 4 Note Off
0004D646 2 -- 96 42 46 7 F# 4 Note On
0004D647 2 -- 96 3E 1A 7 D 4 Note On
**switched Roland A-880 MIDI message filter ALL NOTE OFF to disabled**
**Hydrasynth release envelopes cut off**
0004E535 2 -- 86 42 00 7 F# 4 Note Off
0004E54A 2 -- 86 3E 00 7 D 4 Note Off
0004E54B 2 -- B6 7B 00 7 --- CC: All Notes Off
0004E691 2 -- 96 3D 39 7 C# 4 Note On
0004E691 2 -- 96 40 3D 7 E 4 Note On
0004F556 2 -- 86 40 00 7 E 4 Note Off
0004F56C 2 -- 86 3D 00 7 C# 4 Note Off
0004F56D 2 -- B6 7B 00 7 --- CC: All Notes Off
0004F6DE 2 -- 96 4A 1A 7 D 5 Note On
0004F6DE 2 -- 96 4E 3E 7 F# 5 Note On
00050562 2 -- 86 4A 00 7 D 5 Note Off
00050563 2 -- 86 4E 00 7 F# 5 Note Off
00050564 2 -- B6 7B 00 7 --- CC: All Notes Off
0005072B 2 -- 96 42 36 7 F# 4 Note On
0005072B 2 -- 96 45 25 7 A 4 Note On
000513D1 2 -- 86 42 00 7 F# 4 Note Off
000513E6 2 -- 86 45 00 7 A 4 Note Off
000513E7 2 -- B6 7B 00 7 --- CC: All Notes Off
**switched Roland A-880 MIDI message filter ALL NOTE OFF to enabled**
**Hydrasynth release envelopes behaves as expected**
00051778 2 -- 96 42 3A 7 F# 4 Note On
00051779 2 -- 96 42 00 7 F# 4 Note Off
00051779 2 -- 96 42 46 7 F# 4 Note On
0005177A 2 -- 96 3E 1A 7 D 4 Note On
00052669 2 -- 86 42 00 7 F# 4 Note Off
0005267E 2 -- 86 3E 00 7 D 4 Note Off
000527C5 2 -- 96 3D 39 7 C# 4 Note On
000527C5 2 -- 96 40 3D 7 E 4 Note On
0005368A 2 -- 86 40 00 7 E 4 Note Off
000536A0 2 -- 86 3D 00 7 C# 4 Note Off
00053811 2 -- 96 4A 1A 7 D 5 Note On
00053812 2 -- 96 4E 3E 7 F# 5 Note On
00054696 2 -- 86 4A 00 7 D 5 Note Off
00054697 2 -- 86 4E 00 7 F# 5 Note Off
0005485F 2 -- 96 42 36 7 F# 4 Note On
0005485F 2 -- 96 45 25 7 A 4 Note On
As you can see the Roland A-880 adds the CC all notes off packet and the Hydrasynth firmware interprets this as an immediate stop all sound, hence killing the envelope. This makes sense, but I have used the A-880 for many years now and never had to touch this setting with my other synths (including the Digitone). This seems to be unique behavior to the Hydrasynth. Also the A-880 manual documents this in the filter section. Adding a CC all notes off to the data stream doesn’t sound to me as " filtering "
Anyway issue solved and explained. I have had no problems so far yet with my other synths.
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The Hydrasynth has been an interesting experience so far. Many hours of frustration, but with several moments of insight (the ‘ah ha’ experience), over the last month. So for the time being I am keeping it. I just have to be patient with myself.
Compared to the Sequential Pro 3, which sounds fantastic and is very immediate, the Hydrasynth needs dedication and tender care before I can create a good sounding patch. Despite the Hydrasynth’s excellent workflow, which is brilliant and very clear.
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Thanks, Jukka. The desktop is a better literal fit for my space constraints. I was wishfully hoping that the Zorx ribbon (or some other external ribbon controller), could be added later to extend the capabilities of the unit.
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Might I ask what using the ribbon controller to control the mod matrix does?
Theremin mode on the HSK has some special features including the ability to quantize the notes played by the ribbon strip — to restrict the key and scale played. This quantization is in addition to, and completely separate from the quantization applied to the keyboard. (The HSD can quantize the pads too.)
So on the HSK you can set up two different scale and key quantizations between the keyboard and the theremin ribbon strip, and set up some interesting bitonalities — like picking one of the pentatonic scales, or a blues scale, or set up whatever selection with a custom scale. (By the way the arpeggiator can chord through these key and scale restrictions too, in arpeggiator chord or phrase modes. Be aware there is an additional function “Chord” only available on the HSK, that plays chords in reaction to single keyboard key being pressed, and these also get processed by the key and scale restrictions you have made.)
Selection of a key and scale for an auxiliary ribbon strip, like the Zorx, would need to happen, in probably one of two ways. You could add a CV scale quantizer, there are lots of different ones in Eurorack, that change CV voltages to match preset scales and keys. The other means would be to output MIDI from the external ribbon strip, i think you’ll need an external converter, again likely in Eurorack, with the Zorx, to convert CV to MIDI note-on / note-off. But the good side of this would be that the key and scale selections you make to the voice on the HSD get applied to the MIDI in. You would not get bitonality with this though,
The external CV is a very nice feature on the Hydrasynth.
Check the detail on the output for the mod-matrix in the manual. That’s a mode built into the HSK.
Did I read somewhere that someone was having latency issues with the Hydrasynth? That sometimes this seemed to be Arp or Clock related? Other times just generally slightly sloppy timing that seemed to be related to more complex sounds where all the Mutants are in play?
Got to say I am struggling a bit with timing and external clocking here and there. I can’t quite get it in the pocket reliably. Especially so where I have clocked or rhythmic or arp dependent sounds.
Anyone got any tips for tightening things up? I’ve played with various clock, latch and arp settings but can’t get happy.
Tis a shame as most everything else about this wonderful instrument is bang on.
jim
Yes, and confirmed by ASM - the more complex it gets with the FM, Sync, and ASM PW mutators the latency will increase (i measured 22ms at most). The Arp sync is wide discussed. With clocked via usb it is way off in my experience. Luckyly im not a arp guy :-) Maybe they get it fixed. Besides that, its a wonderful synth.
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Is it possible to fire Note On with a Gate into either of the Mod inputs?
Or some other workaround to trig the Hydra from eurorack/cc?
jim
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One option would be a CV to MIDI module. For example, consider the Befaco VCMC or their CV Thing. There are alternatives. The two CV inputs on the HS can still be used for other modulation connections.
The VCMC is capable of polyphonic input.
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