Any time you’re thinking, “I wonder if I can easily and gracefully perform this MIDI task,” Reaper might not be the best starting point.
I have produced quality tracks and radio programs with Reaper over the last decade. Its “Up and Running” guide was really a great guide for getting started and becoming proficient quickly. But they were all audio projects — MIDI was done elsewhere.
I’ve never been impressed by (or even functional with) Reaper’s MIDI workflow. Even to get quality MIDI beat clock output, you have to search the forums for a 3rd party plugin… or at least, that was the case in 4.x, which was my Reaper heyday. (Its MTC, on the other hand, has been solid…)
So, this is a little bit of “back to square one”, after realizing how daunting learning a new DAW is. There really is no point with the tools I’ve got in my hands already and I’m overcomplicating things by trying to come up with a perfect workflow, because I’m realizing there’s no such thing. After a long night of tinkering together with my partner-in-crime musician, I’ve come to realize a few things:
The MPC workflow is the reason why we became so productive this last year. That’s a fact that shouldn’t be thrown away.
Learning a new DAW is a lot of work. I better have a super solid reason for doing so, or else I’ll just shift focus even more from what I’m here to do (making music).
The look and feel of your environment does matter. We love hardware, and we love beautiful software. That completely rules out Reaper, for example.
I think we’ll mostly stick to the current workflow after all, but also explore some new things:
Leverage the benefits of starting songs in MPC One. It’s extremely fast to get a beat going, and the way it handles effects per track and per pad is very fast and intuitive and the muscle memory is so strong at this point, it would be stupid not to make the most of it.
The way the MPC can handle external synths is also really convenient. I love that I can quickly switch between a built-in synth plugin and an external synth when jumping between sequencer/midi editing standalone, and sound editing while plugged into the external synth.
Embrace the hybrid workflow once the project gets complex - use MPC One as a controller for MPC2 and leverage the power of the Macbook. This means we can push things farther without switching up the environment.
Spend some time to learn more shortcuts in the computer MPC2 software. It’s still a clunky DAW, but after trying Reaper, I realize it could be a lot worse. This should take care of my use case of wanting to quickly fix something in the mix while on the go - I can do that from MPC2 in my laptop without the MPC One control surface plugged in.
The key thing I dislike in MPC, from a pure sound point of view, is the Air Reverb (it’s perfectly acceptable for drums and other stuff, but lackluster for certain crispy pads and plucks). The MPC supports 3rd party plugins when not in standalone mode, so, given that we embrace the hybrid workflow at this point of the song writing process, we could experiment with things like Valhalla to see if that sounds better and we don’t feel ready to move on from the MPC DAW.
Do the rudimentary mixing on the MPC just like we do today (eq, ducking, some compression). That part works fairly well up to a point and it’s about making it sound decent, not perfect.
When the song feels like it’s close to being finished - or when we feel that we’ve squeezed the most out of the MPC workflow for that song, do some final cleanup in the project and then export audio stems into Reason 10 and do the final processing and mixing there. Or just export the midi tracks/notes if we’re unhappy with a built-in sound on the MPC anyway. Re-do things like reverb return channels and sidechain in Reason, and dial in compressors to taste. This could also open up new creative opportunities by e.g. swapping out a sound or two, or chopping up one of the audio stems for glitchy effects that can’t be done from within the MPC (since it doesn’t support submix/master track automation).
If we feel the need to go back and change something up in one of the original audio stems, that can still be done in MPC and that track can be re-exported into Reason again. It shouldn’t happen that often or be that hard, especially not when comparing to learning how to make new songs from scratch in a new DAW, which is where my mind was at when I created this original thread.
Back to making music now. The journey continues. Thanks everyone for your input and recommendations along the way!
Thanks for the advice. Yes, if I ever go down the route of learning a new DAW, Bitwig and Ableton will be on my shortlist, and Reaper will not. It’s clear that you do get what you pay for when it comes to DAWs.
I agree on the air reverb, i too wish they allowed two sends with better algorythm in it in standalone mode. But i think its a minimal compromise, i missed a 2nd reverb on the Elektron Rytm aswell…
They allow four sends though, not sure what you mean with two sends? But yeah, the reverb in the MPC sounds a bit metallic compared to the options in e.g. Reason, Digitakt, Hydrasynth or the Minilogue XD in my opinion.
The trick for avoid gas is actually make music and dedicate time to it.
Right now I’m using ableton, a keystep, a Analog Rytm and Digitone, both synths to fiddle around and looking for some inspiration, but all the set up works around ableton.
I’m making a ton of music and not reallly looking for a new machine anymore. Use what you have, and make your workflow and soon you won’t need anything else.
Very true. Every time I make a song beat, I forget about GAS again. It’s so meditative to be focusing on a new song instead of GAS and workflow perfectionism.
I spent once a complete afternoon to copycat some good sounding reverbs from DAW projects I had in the past with the AIR Reverb.
With some patience and some detailed tweaking I already made huge improvements with how it sounded, especially with the high/lo freq option to make it sound from “metalicaly” to a lot more pleasant.
I don’t have my MPC anymore, but I’ll try to see if I can still load the presets in the MPC software.
The thing that I’ve learned mostly is that imitating a reverb you like is a lot easier than making a good sounding reverb from scratch.
Just play a sound through a reverb you really like in a DAW (or in your case: with the MPC in controller mode with a VST of your liking), then play the same sound with the AIR Reverb and tweak it until it sounds “samish”.
I’ve been on a sort of similar journey as you (and many of the forum members) with going “DAWless”, then “back ITB”, going DAWless again and GASsing for all kinds of hardware
My DAW always has been Ableton Live, but I tried many others too, to eventually come back to Ableton again, just because I know how it works without thinking how to do certain things. So the “DAW thing” was settled for me.
But the “DA(rk)Wless” forces convinced me to try out this new generation of hardware boxes as well.
The MPC was the first in the journey of several hardware devices, and after the initial “THIS IS THE ULTIMATE BOX” phase it felt more like a limited DAW from the 90’s in the end. Next to that I was becoming frustrated with all sort of unexpected behaviour and bugs and the very inconsistent features and UI of the MPC software (and the touchscreen).
I did like the possibility to export projects to .als though from the MPC, a ready to arrange project in Ableton without having to record it etc. But the frustration stayed so I sold the MPC.
After several other hardware boxes and synths I discovered the Elektron boxes like the DT and after that the DN. I still use them almost daily, I find them very pleasant to work with and I like the directness and utilisation of the UI the most of all hardware boxes I tried. I decided last year that these will be my only hardware boxes for now and that feels good.
So I settled on the DAW (Ableton) because I know how it works and on the hardware boxes I like (The Elektron ones) because I’m starting to become very familiar with how they work.
Luckily Elektron didn’t release a new hardware box recently with exactly the same workflow as the hardware boxes I have, otherwise I would be GASsing for one right now
Isn’t learning a Daw just a different form of Gas and a way to procrastinate?
As you say you’ve never been more productive than with the Mpc one (and as an Mpc Live user I understand) stick to it, you know it can meet and exceed your needs.
It gets harder as you add more gear though so maybe pick one to pair with the Mpc One and focus on them but allow yourself to just play with your other gear.
To make a comparison, Ableton is way more immediate than reaper (maybe the most immediate DAW), the same way a novation circuit is more immediate than an octatrack.
To go on with my comparison, reaper is powerful on a lot of aspects (routing, audio editing, arranging etc) and not so complicated but you have to invest time on it and watch the tutorials.
It is a blank “canvas”, so you have to bring your own samples and instruments.
Like the octatrack, it looks dated, but it is reliable, light stable, nerdy and can have a lot of different uses if you set it accordingly.
With that said and to go back on the GAS part, I agree with other comment, and you should try to keep it simple.
I often get the best results with limitations : a song focused on one piece of hardware or a very “limiting” template in a DAW, not using tools for the sake of it, and having a precise idea where I want my songs to go to.
Changing gear or software, is a good thing but should not be allocating more than 10% of our music time to create a patch/setup" (unless you like nerding on technics, this can be a different hobby from making music. )
This forum is out of control lately with GAS. The collective madness has overloaded my own gear obsession circuits and now I’m dusting off things I’ve neglected for months and just enjoying the ride and the old things that now sound rather fresh again. Sorry y’all are having a hard time, but also thanks much for the perspective.
If everyone on this forum formed a collective and paid in $10 a month subscription fee, we could buy multiples of everything available out there and circulate it around like Netflix used to deliver physical DVD’s back in the day.
Each month a new piece of equipment would arrive on your doorstep and you’d have 30 days to test it out before sending it off to the next member and a new piece arrives.
If you truly liked one of them, then you would be able to buy with confidence knowing that it’s not GaS but a justified and tested new member of your studio.
This part made me chuckle as I realized that any ideas of “going full circle” by going back ITB would probably just be the first loop in a spiral. Glad to know I’m not alone with the workflow struggle journey.
It kind of IS the ultimate box too, right? I mean, it can do so much, yet it still manages to feel tactile and approachable. But yeah, it’s not without its quirks, bugs and above all, inconsistent and occasionally ancient UX paradigms. I have a long list of things I’d want to fix about the workflow. Yet, there’s no denying that I’m able to whip up a new track within an hour, which is faster than I’ve ever been.
I hear you, of the grooveboxes I’ve evaluated over the last year, the DN was the one I had most fun with. Ctrl+All is amazing. But I wasn’t ready for a live performance-first device at the time and wanted to make music outside of the DAW, hence the switch to the MPC. Today, I’m looking at the Elektrons more as robotic instruments, and as such, I’d be more willing to embrace them in some form.
I’m curious how you integrate the Elektrons into the Ableton workflow. Do you jam out live with ctrl+all in takes, and then stream it using Overbridge?
Indeed, workflow optimization and problematization is a form of procrastination, and although I have never been more productive than with the MPC, it’s filled with small annoyances which fuels my undercurrent of wanting to find something better. Examples include: no solo/mute buttons/shortcuts, no way to reorder sequences/tracks, clunky workflow when copying data across sequences, lackluster Air Reverb, etc. And when in controller mode on the computer: no arranger view, no way to color tracks, no customizable keyboard shortcuts, etc. My point is, the workflow isn’t perfect. And it probably never will be, regardless of which environment I choose.
So your advice is the right one: stick with it. The procrastination is almost always cured by making music, and it has a nice side effect of also improving your workflow automatically simply because you get better at your craft.
Good advice. I love plugging in other devices into MPC, currently we’re making a song that utilizes both the Minilogue XD and the Hydrasynth. It’s a fun adventure and the MPC makes this feel easy (though I’m sure it would have been just as easy in Ableton for example, but I digress into procrastination again…).
