Yet another GAS thread - back to DAW?

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Warning, this may be a familiar and thus boring read. Move on if you don’t care about yet another GAS story.

The recent release of Syntakt made me GAS harder than anytime before, and I’m not even sure why. I’m having fun with my MPC One plugged into my Hydrasynth Explorer and Minilogue XD, and I just bought an MC-101 for some bedside/couch noodling. I don’t need a drum computer but I keep looking back at the time I had a DN and how much it opened up the world to me around what you can achieve with the right tools in your hands.

The problem is that I keep lusting for other gear rather than just making music. Not a unique problem, I know, but I’m getting quite irritated with it. It’s like I’d rather be on Elektronauts than to enjoy my real hobby. It’s the time wasted on this that concerns me, not the money wasted because for the most part, I’ve bought and sold used gear.

Facts:

  • I’ve never been more productive than on my MPC One. There’s no doubt that this hardware did something for me that Reason 10 never did.
  • The Hydrasynth sounds better than any of the Reason 10 plugins (in my opinion), including Europa.
  • I’ve never had more fun than when combining soft synths with real hardware and banging out music with my best friend, there’s something really inspiring about physical instruments that we never felt with Reason/DAWs.

Also facts:

  • Gear is fucking expensive. Like, €999 for a drum computer that I don’t even need?
  • Plugging in power cords, audio cables and midi cables across different hardware isn’t fun.
  • The MPC workflow is rarely faster than the DAW workflow, it’s just more hands-on due to the excellent controller surface. With proper shortcuts set up, I could be just as efficient in a DAW.
  • I’ve spent more time lusting for gear than making music in the last year. We’re talking hundreds of hours of watching reviews and tutorials for gear that I don’t even own. You could argue that it’s become my #1 hobby, only this hobby doesn’t fill me with joy.
  • The Roland MC-101 wasn’t more fun to use on the couch than Elektronauts and YouTube after all. Horrible workflow if you ask me. I’d rather use FL Studio Mobile as a music sketchpad for the couch.

The good thing is that these experiences with various grooveboxes have widened my perspective on what you can do with synth parameters, effects and other aspects of music making that I now know how to replicate in other environments. I wouldn’t have loved the MPC One as much if it wasn’t for the fact that I took inspiration from the p-locks of the Digitone and replicated that in the MPC step sequencer.

But now that I have gained all this knowledge about what I appreciate about music making, there’s a logical part of me that is starting to wonder why I’m doing all this hardware stuff (especially the GAS part) and whether I wouldn’t be at least just as, if not a whole lot more productive if I stopped wasting hours on GAS and just opened up my laptop and a DAW instead.

Maybe I just need to learn a new DAW to get some new inspiration, like Reaper?

After all, that would solve all of the problems I’m having with the gear I own:

  • Excellent portability and battery life - my MacBook Air M1 has more power than all of my other synth and groovebox hardware combined.
  • No need for midi, audio and power cables
  • Completely wireless! I could use my wireless earbuds/headphones again when I want to
  • No more CPU limits from using the MPC One standalone
  • With a DAW, I could quickly edit/tweak parts of a song even when commuting and/or on the go. While that’s already possible with MPC 2.0, that is one clunky DAW without the MPC One control surface. I hate using MPC 2.0 standalone.
  • Real-time mixing anywhere. If something doesn’t sound right from yesterday’s mixing session when I play back the song on the train to work, I could literally tweak the mix in real time with my bluetooth earbuds to fix it and opening up the DAW.
  • With a DAW like Reaper, which has customizable keyboard shortcuts and macros, I’m sure I could develop a workflow that is just as fast as on the MPC One, despite using a keyboard and a touch pad when on the go.

Luckily I’ve bought most of my gear used and even sold some stuff with a small profit, so I haven’t wasted much more than my time if I decide to explore the DAW route again. The only things I’ve bought new are the MPC One and the Hydrasynth Explorer, and I’d probably keep them both until I’m sure the DAW is for me again. I love playing live on a synth to generate new ideas and the Hydrasynth is perfect for that. The MPC One is a less obvious keeper if I no longer use it with MPC 2.0, since there are better, general midi controllers for non-MPC DAWs. So maybe I’ll lose a few euros in the end, but it was all for the sake of learning, right?

Anyway, that’s enough rambling for today. Again, I’m just thinking out loud here. The bottom line is that I wonder if the hardware, particularly the production/grooveboxes (less so the synths/instruments), isn’t just getting in the way of making music. While they’re really fun to jam with, they’re also quite toxic for my brain it seems, since I spend so much time lusting for the ones I don’t own - I’m looking at you Syntakt, Polyend Play, M8, and the next set of grooveboxes that haven’t yet been released.

8 Likes
#2

DAS : DAW Acquisition Syndrome

Edit: jokes aside, do you have a DAW you already know? Why not just use it instead of wanting to learn a new DAW?

6 Likes
#3

Do you actually know what kind of music you want to make?
If you have some clarity about that, the outcome should help suggest the process.

-songs or ‘tracks’?
-collaborative or solo?
-radio-ready or raw?
-minimal and focused or layered and complex?
-any intention to play live?
-intent to release and promote music, or to have as much fun making it as possible?

3 Likes
#4

Yes, I do have Reason 10 but I don’t want to upgrade it again to 12 because I think they’re overpriced and getting bugger by each release. Reason 10 doesn’t map well with any of my midi controllers and has really tiny, low res graphics that my friend can barely see. We’re getting older I suppose.

I’ve heard good things about Reaper and it’s very cheap too. I love that it’s customizable and it doesn’t look that complicated. I’d miss Europa though, but I still have my Hydrasynth and Minilogue XD.

1 Like
#5
  • I love making full songs, but that typically only happens to 1 out of 10 song embryos.
  • I collaborate with a friend but we mostly do it every Tuesday face to face. I wouldn’t mind being able to pass on a project to him sometimes though, that’s another benefit of going back to the DAW.
  • My friend is the mixing guru, he loves that stuff and we try our best. But we’re amateurs, only with ambitions to make radio ready songs. :blush:
  • Layered and complex, definitely. But, as we’ve become better at the mixing side of things, we’ve definitely come to learn that less is more. Think: drums, bass, pad, pluck, lead, some ear candy and sometimes some samples. But definitely layered with effects and what not. (The MPC allows for some pretty complex DAW-like stuff after all).
  • Jamming something live for YouTube would be as far as I’d ever go with live performances. But there’s a secret side of me that made me feel like a real artist when I jammed on my Digitone. I’ve said in other threads that I had the most fun in that device out of every device I’ve owned. That has to count for something here.
  • Release or have fun - that’s a great continuum and we’ve gradually shifted towards just having fun this last year. At the same time, we’ve learned a lot so I think we’re closer to release-ready songs than ever before. Having fun is key here - we combine music making with table tennis and a couple of beers to keep the energy up.
#6

I learned that having the perfect midi controller (for you) is crucial to fall in love with DAW’s.

I always used controllers with keys, but I felt really frustrated because I’m not as good as I’d like playing piano and stuff, so I always ended up closing Ableton without doing much.

A couple of months ago a friend offered me to trade my Keystep 37 for a Launchpad X and I decided to give it a try. It completely changes my experience and I’ve been learning and using Ableton a lot more since then. I ended up shelving my DT, which was the main device where I make music before.

So maybe instead of learning a new DAW, just try a new midi controller, because the way in which you make music could change a lot with it. Also DAW’s have unlimited features in comparison with hardware, if you don’t like the sound of a certain softsynth a bit of EQ solves almost every problem.

3 Likes
#7

Do you have an iPad?

1 Like
#8

Definitely! I currently have two controllers (aside from the MPC One, which is a groovebox but also doubles as a controller for MPC 2.0 on the computer): Keystep 37 and the Roland A-49, which I bought to play with bigger keys in four octaves.

If I went back to the DAW, I think I’d spoil myself with a midi controller with a lot more buttons/pads to make or easier to map features like mute/solo to physical buttons. And definitely endless encoders. Actually I’d probably get the MPK Mini mk3, but let’s not GAS again. :see_no_evil:

#9

Sorry, I forgot to answer your main question: we make slightly different types of music, but they’re all electronic music. We both loved trance some 10 years ago and we’ve then progressed from there into slower beats (like 95-110 bpm). One song I’d probably call synthwave, another one I don’t know what to call it, almost hiphop-inspired but synthesis only and definitely still in the melodic territory. We’re going to make an ambient track at some point, and we even discussed doing a movie soundtrack kind of score (though with more synths than an orchestra, except maybe a horn and some string ensembles) and we will definitely make some harder techno too. We love it all, it just goes in cycles. Röyksopp is one of many inspiration sources.

#10

I do, but I don’t think I’d be comfortable with using that plugged into the studio. I’d rather have a keyboard with keys that I can bind to shortcuts like I did in Reason. For music making on the couch, it’s a decent option though.

1 Like
#11

My suggestion:
Try a change of process.
Write first. Come up with musical ideas that work, using basic sounds on your synths and MPC. Presets even. No sound design. If you’re stuck with 20sec of music, don’t reach for another synth or start a new file; push the idea along musically.
Record this as basic audio.
Then when the song feels ready (but is probably sonically pretty meh), go to town with ear candy, sound design, and writing/programming drum and synth parts.

(My 2c on Reaper: great for recording, and mixing; not great for programming MIDI. Very customisable but deceptively complex. Would be my 1st choice for a project based wholly on recording and mixing audio, but not for anything where the DAW is an instrument.)

5 Likes
#12

Is Ableton Live not something you could consider?

The MPC One has a dedicated controller section for Ableton since 2.10 and you can export projects on the MPC as Ableton projects.

This way you can still use your MPC One as a sketch machine and controller. No new hardware needed!

4 Likes
#13

Yeah, GAS is a B****. I suffer from it myself and don’t know how to beat it. But it feels like it gets worse the more I buy. I don’t think you will get past GAS just by stop working with hardware. You need to figure out the cause that drives you to lust after gear you don’t have. Otherwise, you will just start lusting after plugins you don’t have instead.

But I would not drastically sell off gear. Use what you have and pair it with a DAW of your choice! A good DAW and hardware is a great combo!

4 Likes
#14

These are great tips and we follow these sometimes (other times not). But the problem isn’t necessarily writers block or getting stuck in the details of music making, the problem is GAS when I could spend my time on more productive and/or rewarding things. And I’m thinking that the hardware is part of the problem, because there’s no such thing as the perfect workflow with hardware. Or software for that matter, but at least that’s a lot easier and cheaper to evaluate.

1 Like
#15

What would you recommend for a DAW as an instrument? We didn’t quite click with Reason (especially my friend hated it) and I’m stuck with version 10 and refuse to pay as much as I’ve already paid for an upgrade, so I’m ruling that one out. I like Reaper on paper because it’s cheap and flexible, but I can’t say it looks very inspiring. Would love to hear more from you about your experiences.

#16

That does sound great and is worth evaluating. My only gripe with it is that it’s a bit pricy.

#17

You can try Live for free for 90 days. So for trying it out it won’t cost you anything: Try Ableton Live 11 for free - 90-day Trial download | Ableton

3 Likes
#18

Yes it gets worse for each buy and it’s not productive or good for the wallet. I think the cause of it is spending time on places like YouTube and getting influenced by people who are on completely different paths than yourself, honestly.

Like going dawless, which is what the MPC One allowed me to do. I bought into the concept because I was looking for inspiration outside of the computer (I still do). But I didn’t think that I would want to completely stop using the DAW. The problem is that once yotew in a groovebox workflow with the MPC, it gets pretty complicated if you want to import that project into the DAW later on. What if you want to tweak the sequencer notes a bit after exporting the stems? Then you have to redo the export, or export the midi notes and replace the instrument. Jumping between two environments is not fun.

So suddenly I started to hate the idea of a DAW, despite the workflow of mixing being so obviously slow on the MPC. I would never have thought of the idea that dawless was the goal if it wasn’t for YouTube. So maybe the solution is to take a break from YouTube and Elektronauts, actually. :blush:

100% agree, plus, I wholeheartedly enjoy and recommend the Hydrasynth. It’s a well of inspiration and so fun to use.

I think instruments are different from grooveboxes. Instruments are not trying to replace the production environment, they can’t do that. So I’d definitely keep anything that qualifies as an instrument.

I think what I’d get rid of is the stuff that don’t give me joy or are purely grooveboxes, like my MC-101. And more generally, I’d attempt to keep things simple. It’s not a production environment I should try to replace, the DAW is a great, inexpensive environment for that. Where I buy and use hardware should be for the inspiration, the spark at the initial phase of a song writing process. At least for me, that’s what I get from it the most.

1 Like
#19

I wonder if you aren’t trying to address the root problem in a backwards sort of way?

Sounds like your MPC One is perfect for you right now…why mess with it? I am not sure that getting rid of your gear will address the underlying wanderlust that leads you down YouTube rabbit holes…I mean, VST Acquisition Syndrome is certainly real as well.

So why not first try changing some habits: muting the gear-oriented categories and threads here, and setting yourself a rule that the only gear-related YouTube videos you’ll allow yourself to watch are tutorials or reviews of the gear you already own?

2 Likes
#20

I wouldn’t say the MPC is perfect because it also slows me down significantly once an idea has developed into more of a full song. The CPU is really slow, it starts to choke with too many effects going, it’s not portable and I feel stuck in MPC 2.0 when it’s actually one of the worst DAWs I’ve tried.

Also, mixing is clunky on it. It’s a slow process. There’s no real overview of a song once you’ve come a long way with it. There are no mute/solo shortcuts. Tons of quality of life stuff missing.

But yeah, it did something to reignite my passion for sure. It was mostly that it was such a nice hardware controller experience, because none of the effects in it are better or more interesting than the ones I already had in Reason.

You mean get some self-discipline? :joy::see_no_evil: Your advice is spot on, of course, and I will give it some serious consideration. Thanks!