Ive gotta agree that ableton won’t release basically a hardware version of ableton. They probably shouldn’t either, good software doesn’t mean good hardware and vice versa for other companies. If anyone was gonna go standalone it would have been maschine with MPC live being the nearest competitor but they didnt, because Native instruments have roots deep in software. they do what they’re best at. I think a lot of companies aren’t as interested in keeping up with the neighbors as people assume, in fact ableton and standalone samplers aren’t even really neighbors, it’s just something ableton can do. If a company makes a dedicated controller for their software it doesn’t mean they should necessarily keep up with the trends of modern mixing desks and release a standalone mixer for example, get what I mean? I think everyone would like to see it but realistically everyone would just be disappointed when it’s not as powerful as a basic laptop, so why bother
I’d rather Ableton focus on making the current Live/Push combo a more tactile experience than making new hardware. The new midi note view and device visualizations are a nice step in that direction - but they can (and I hope they will) do a lot more.
This! There are some considerable improvements Abelton can make to Live and Push. MPE being top of my wish list. With Live 10, they are starting to open Push up nicely. I can see them riding on Push 2 for a couple of years more before they bring out a fresh controller.
If Standalone Push is to happen then it’s years away for me. That new Wavetable synth (for example) is a bit of a CPU hog - to get the 1st party stuff playing nicely will take quite a bit of grunt force (compared to what Akai stuck inside the Live). Just doesn’t seem cost effective. If it was, NI would have done something with Maschine long before Akai filled the gap.
If anything, the MPC Live has shown to me that the market for standalone isn’t actually all that big.
I’m not hating at all, I’m just cushioning the blow for you because there is no way Ableton will release a stand-alone groovebox. They’re a software company and Push is simply a hardware controller to compliment their software.
There’s nothing ‘obvious’ about Ableton making this move, not sure what you mean by that. Anyway, as I say, you are absolutely free to hope for that which will not happen.
Well, I think Native instruments didn’t take the step because they just don’t have the right software in place. A lot of their business is to support other DAW’s so it doesn’t make sense at this moment. In Ableton’s case they have a fully featured live performance software which is runs perfectly well without any third party software support. Every aspect of the music making process is covered within the DAW itself. I agree good software doesn’t mean good hardware but the hardware is already made and proven in this case… push 2 and it works fairly well (many improvements are still needed) I not saying push 3 should be a fully featured PC. It would have actually quite limited standalone features, 8 track of audio/ tracks of midi with the native plug-ins, you would probably have a limited total number of plug-ins per project etc… Only a stereo output.
Ableton were wise to release Push in the beginning as they read the market correctly, they will do the same in this case.
I think, as another poster pointed out, you probably overestimate the market for computer-free music making - perhaps because it is something you are into.
cushioning the blow? it won’t upset me if it doesn’t happen and I’m not scared to be wrong. Stop your hating!
I’m not hating, I’m just disagreeing with you, you don’t need to interpret that as hating.
you are most definitely a hater.
Um…ok then mate.
^ This nails it. To make Live standalone would mean, that Ableton had to remove a lot of functionality from the current version to make it functinal on a standalone device. With the acquisition of Cycling74 ( Max / MaxforLive) they gave a good hint in which direction they want to move .
Extreme modularity, open environment for hardware and software solutions which does not suit well to standalone devices, me think
I’m increasingly losing interest in Live. It is garbage for sequencing MIDI gear - there is still no proper way to use MIDI CCs on Push without resorting to cumbersome M4L devices. Using the MIDI map mode to map external MIDI CCs to Macros is problematic on various fronts. The Push integration is still lame (obvious when undoing an action done in Push from Live’s menu). Push 2’s fancy graphics use a lot of CPU from the computer. Parameter automation on Push is lame compared to Maschine and Elektron’s implementations.
The snap to grid when editing MIDI clips with the mouse often refuses to work, the way MIDI clips are shown is constantly annoying as there is no consistency and I’m always having to zoom in or out. There is no “fold notes” on Push’s step sequencer so you have to hunt down the notes you want to edit by scrolling up and down the octaves, etc etc.
it’s OK if you’re just using sample loops but if you want to sequence other gear it just doesn’t quite cut it.
When I first started using Live the Session mode with the clips and scenes was exciting but I’m finding it becomes a hurdle when you want to actually arrange a track with some structure. I keep getting stuck in improvisation mode by endlessly combining different clips and never getting around to arranging.
tl;dr: Too many options, not enough limitations to make you focus. Lame MIDI control.
You might want to demo akai mpc 2.0 software. There’s a 7 day trial.
I have yet to use it as a midi master like I used my 2000xl years ago. The timing is much better on this daw and I think you might like it. Once I put my clarett sound interface in the other room I will see how well it can sequence my AK and Prophet 6.
Live is good for cutting loops up, but if you have external midi gear it just doesn’t do it so well. You can do latency compensation but that requires practice. I think I will just go MpC 2.0 and use the midi plugs from my sound card to sequence.
I don’t know, all these DAWs are focused on audio manipulation. I think I’m moving towards getting a Pyramid for sequencing and using the computer only for mixing and effects. I’ve had enough of the constant software updates and computers in general.
Standalone for ableton will be ‘also standalone’. So connect it to a computer for in the studio and unplug it from the computer and use it on stage,
Just like MPC live
Prior to reading this thread I was pretty much sold on the push 2. But I’m reconsidering my thought and taking a second look at machine mk3 and possibly adding a jam with it. The mpc live is nice but I’ve also hear a lot of complaints about shoddy build quality and their daw in a box approach is too limited for standalone. I’m going to continue to keep looking into all of these but I’ve taken a few steps back before pulling any triggers.
Thank you everyone for all of your pros and cons from your opinions.
Does the toriaz even hold any ground with the 3 above talked about controllers?
Not a chance in hell Ableton will make a stand alone unit. Trying to squeeze the power of Ableton into a small box makes no sense at all.
Get a small laptop and plug in Push. That is the closest you will get to your dream
Then why on earth don’t you just record all that into arrangement while improvising ?
If there is a push 3 i hope they do another trade in offer. Wish there were 16 pots instead of the 8 and MPE pads. Not sure about having an in built in audio interface but been using a laptop more, wonder how many users are on laptops vs desktops?
I used to use Cubase and then Reason for arranging. I’ve been working on live sets where I can improvise rather than play back a pre-arranged sequence, and Live’s session view is pretty good for that. I find Arrangement view in Live difficult to get used to because of how the track/mixer info is on the right side of the screen, while every other DAW has it on the left… so I have been avoiding going into arrange mode. Old habits die hard.
Not sure why people are talking about Push 3. Has anything been announced? I can’t see that happening for another couple of years… Live has reached a bit of a dead end and needs some re-thinking, IMO.