Why no EQ?

Why don’t you dare? It’s not a hardcore commitment of time or effort to download and try it out, and it is working very well these days for me.

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I like to create things DAWless :slight_smile:

Fair enough, in your post though you said “yet” which was the reason for my reply.

Of course I’m open to use Overbridge but I need a reason to do so. EQ might be a reason :wink:

There’s this DIY project Harrison Ford Filters
Eight low pass/high pass filters.

Or why not get a mixer :slight_smile:

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A donkey can not be whipped into being a horse. The Rytm has fully analog paths and individual outs for which it commands quite a high price tag. Many people find this so desirable that they cough up the money and forgo the features and convenience of a digital machine. If you find the Rytm sound to be unusable without an internal eq, why suffer for so long? Just sell it and get an MPC or Maschine or whatever does have an eq, and leave the poor donkey alone. :horse:

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Not my case, i love the Rytm sound, feel and workflow. BUT i still miss an EQ, and honestly, i think anyone will at some moment. I understand the design of the machine won’t allow this happen, but anyway, i still miss an EQ :stuck_out_tongue:

I missed having an EQ when I got the AR since I used to EQ each drum in Live. Now I don’t really think about it anymore. It’s not that hard to make good sounding drums with the various sound shaping options already present in the AR and as GirTheRobot said one can usually shape the sound a little different earlier in the process to make it fit well with everything else. The compressor is also very important since it has some equalizing features (sidechain).

The beats that I get from the AR now are so much better than what I used to do in Live.

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EQ is always way overused due to bad Youtube tutorials about highpassing everything. This makes for weak mixes that sound amateur and boring. Think of 90’s era house tracks, a lot of the producers were using the main outputs of an MPC or 3000xl or another samplers right into a mixer and then tape. No stupid highpassing and precision EQ… just banging beats with character.

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actually in this case would have to disagree
as advertised its a analog drum machine every single analog drum machine is controlled with filters that’s why you have individiual outs to plug into whatever EQing device your heart desires

it’s not a groove box it’s a analog drum machine my logical thinking

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The distinction you make (drum machine - no EQ, groove box - EQ) seems arbitrary to me.
You could just as easily say that no other drum machine has P-locks, so the electrons are not real drum machines. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Fact is, the analog rytm, whatever you want to call this class of devices, would be several times as useful if there was per-channel EQ.

99.99% of the time the samples used in those cases are already produced.
This is very different from the raw sound of the analog drums in the rytm.
You could argue that one should only use pre-produced samples on the rytm, but then why the hell but an analog drum machine in the first place?

Of course it would be more useful. It would be even more useful with a full channel strip per track and a master bus compressor. But how much extra would people pay for this feature? This is an analog device, every added feature adds weight, space, heat and cost. The AR is an expensive machine as it is. While adding eq for free would be great, adding a few hundred $€£ to the price tag would probably lose customers, even with the added eq’s.

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Simple analog eq is dirt cheap. Nothing more than a few resistors and capacitors. If you’re fancy you’d throw in a couple of inductors.

There already is a buss compressor in the rytm. Unfortunately, if you want to EQ your sounds you need to go through the individual outs and you won’t be able to use it. A whole strip would be overkill. Just some simple EQ would be very helpful.

:rofl: Yeah, except that EQ doesn’t cost that much. In parts it would cost a few dollars more. I don’t know where you’ve got the idea that it costs a few hundred monies from. It is dead wrong.

You are right about the cost of components, but it all multiplies when implemented into a high quality and complex device like am AR. A low end mixer that costs 500$ retail probably costs less than 50 in parts at the factory gate. Elektron must have higher production costs than Behringer or the Harman Group. You probably don’t want that same level parts in your upmarket drum machine/groove box as you get in your pro-sumer level mixers. You hurt your sound quality before you twist a knob. Want t add a true bypass switch? Then you need to implement digital control of this eq because you are not going to add knob per function for this eq, so a few extra da’s. I don’t have access to Elektrons spreadsheets, or Behringer for that matter, but quality and specialty come at a cost, and Elektron probably don’t ship half a million ARs a year to be able to add quality features anywhere near component cost.

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I wouldn’t think so. There is a lot more in a typical mixer than simply the eq circuit and these things actually do cost some money. There are many potentiometers (not applicable in rytm), there is the case (not applicable in rytm), there are connectors (not applicable in rytm). There is a power supply (not applicabloe in rytm), etc, etc. BTW, When i say ‘not applicable in rytm’ i mostly mean that you already paid for it in a rytm. Adding an eq circuit wouldn’t add to the cost of the things i mentioned. Meanwhile the things i mentioned significantly add to the cost of manufacturing a mixer. So what i’m saying is that the actual EQ circuits in a mixer are not a large part of it’s manufacturing price.

Yeah, but that wouldn’t translate into a few eq circuits costing hundreds of monies.

Parts themselves don’t make a huge difference because you can get pretty good quality components (at least, the ones used in an eq circuit) for peanuts. Quality has IMHO more to do with circuit design than components. Well, within reason of course.

Electrons quality is debatable. Had some significant problems with the pads on my rytm, for instance. There is also a lot of inconsistencies in both the analog and the digital engines. Envelope timings are sloppy, buttons feel and sound clunky, etc, etc, etc…
Electron gear is not all that high quality. It’s just that it’s a small boutique-ish company with limited resources and thus the price is higher. But that doesn’t equate to quality automatically.

And EQ’s are not ‘specialty’ since they are by far the most used tools in the studio… In fact, EQ’s are some of the first circuits mankind invented and they can be made very very simple.

I just checked. A I2C 128-step digital potentiometer is about $1 and that’s not even the bulk price. Back to you, Joe! :grinning:

This thread is still going?

Y u no use the peaking/notch filter? Its an EQ… Or wait, now you want to reply by saying “but then I lose the filter!” Well, you cant have both. Get the mk 2 and resample with the peak/notch to your hearts content?

And btw, a well-behaving digitally controlled analog parametric EQ… not exactly cheap and trivial thing to add is it? Otherwise we’d see them on every volca etc

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Ooh! I love the harrison 32C filters! Soo musical. I need to find a builder for this, thanks!

If someone at Elektron is reading this, they just might be laughing their balls off at our “lerned” discussion.

Of course, the point is that even low quality, low margin products mass produced in china cost several multiples more than the sum of their components.

When the potentiometer is soldered in china, the price of the component is the major issue. When it is soldered in Sweden, the solderers wages and benefits are the main concern. Also consider that a 3 band semi-parametric would require 6 such potentiometers. a fully parametric would need 9. Times 8 Channels…that’s real money just on the potentiometers.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean EQ’s are a specialty, but rather that Elektron as a company makes specialty products. This means that a small product range, selling few units each with high after sales and R&D costs. They therefor must operate at high profit margins.

I will not debate their build quality, because I have no first hand experience, but their production is expensive none the less. If they have issues with QA that is another matter. They do provide excellent service when units are defective and this must be priced in to the products as well.

Finally, the Harrison Ford Filter anecdote just reminds me: I used to have a vintage Harrison console. The filters were indeed marvelous, as was the EQ. But the installation, the maintenence, the downtime, the crackling patch bay!!! If time and money are factor for you…digital rules. 8 full parametric EQ’s on a free FW update!

Hello Adam, so its possible put the EQ on a Digitakt no? coz is the same way than Octa…i wonder to Eq but on my digitakt…

Cheers
Lucare