Why is the Digitone clicking?

Elektron Gear Digitone/Digitone Keys
#161

The single note polyphony issue was addressed in another thread. Can’t remember where though. It made some degree of sense (something to do with phase issues), but none of the other digital polysynths I’ve played have the same behaviour. I think it should be a switchable option, per sound if possible.

It’s not “user error”, but it sometimes is up to the user to think of a fix. The clicking isn’t always due to the same note being repeated. The solution depends on the kind of sound you’re trying to make, oscillator retrig, envelope parameters (including envelope retrig!), and probably a lot of other stuff. It’s a very versatile synth engine, and as such the default settings aren’t always appropriate.

Put it this way, if Elektron introduced small fades for everything so clicks were eliminated, what would you do if you actually wanted a click at the beginning of a sound?

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#162

Well, no response from a support ticket, nor from an email via contact form. So I guess Elektron cannot or will not fix this.

Since there are clear use cases in ambient music and for basslines, I fear this limitation is a bit much for me. I’m tempted to sell the instrument, but I couldn’t ethically do so without telling potential buyers on ebay: “You can’t play a long-release note twice without a click.”

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#163

I do hope elektron is able to change the voice allocation behavior that causes certain kinds of clicking. Like many in this thread have observed, if you play the same note with a long release repeatedly (or 2 chords that have one or more notes in common), a single voice is repeatedly triggered, even if other voices are available. This causes the synth to click. I invite you to try it.

I hope the engineers at elektron can find a way to make it so that different voices are triggered even when playing the same note. A big draw of this instrument for me was the ability to play chords, which very often have notes in common. The clicking takes away from the control and attention to detail that we are used to from elektron.

I am finding that I end up playing somewhat noisy electric piano type sounds, with hard, percussive attacks, which mask some of the clicking–or rather, make clicking a part of the sound. But there is so much more I would like to do with the synth. I see that many of the factory patch designers have gone down a similar route. I hope elektron is able to implement what I imagine (hope) is a relatively easy fix. But otherwise, I do love the machine, and all the creativity and care that elektron puts into their products. Thanks!

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#164

Probably. Analog Four/Keys don’t have that behavior with ROTATE poly setting. Same notes are not cut by themselves.

On the DN I guess it doesn’t work with CYCLE?

.VOICE STEALING sets the rules for how voices are stolen (which voice is taken when you play a new note) when you use more than eight voices at the same time. Press [LEFT]/[RIGHT] to select voice stealing mode.

CYCLE The first played note is stolen first. TRACK Track priority. Notes played on track 1 has priority over notes played on track 2, 3, and 4. Track 2 notes over track 3, 4 Track 3 notes over track 4.
LOW Lowest note is stolen first
HIGH Highest note is stolen first.

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#165

My “same note” clicking goes away if I set the PHASE RESET parameter on the SYN2 PAGE to OFF

Edit: But I guess in that case I get clicking sometimes on different notes :grimacing:

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#166

Just don’t understand why something can’t happen here. I think the voice allocation algorithm is very unusual compared to other polysynths.

I get that voice stealing causes clicks, but why does voice stealing happen on repeated identical notes when there are more voices available AND allocated to that track?

Sigh!

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#167

Chiming in with a “me too” with the single note clicking issue. I do notice it depends considerably on what type of sound is being played. I don’t struggle with bass tones, even rapid 16th notes, because most pf them have a percussive attack and a short release. As long as the note length is shorter than the release, you should be ok.

Where it definitely becomes an actual problem is chord changes where the chords share notes. Especially sounds with softer attacks and longer releases. Try the “Pad Thai” pad patch. It clicks like crazy if you have a common note in your chord progression. I was able to remedy this by toggling off the amp envelope retrigger (AENR under AMP page), but then of course it changes the attack of your played chords.

It does feel Elektron could pretty easily improve this synth by having subsequent repetitive note hits use a different voice. Constantly troubleshooting which of the roughly 6 things that can cause clicking is the actual culprit is a big time waster.

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#168

That’s how it works anyway. New notes trigger a new voice. Change that setting in the voices menu. If your envelope lengths mean you are running out of voices before the envelopes have completed their cycle, then you will get voice stealing, which may cause clicks. That is up to you to fix. Most poly synths work in exactly the same way, including things like Abletons Operator. Operator will click and pop all over the place if you havent adjusted the voicing, retrigger and envelopes correctly.

8 voices is not that many, but it is enough if you work within the limit. Most patches dont cause problems with Abletons Operator as by default the voice count is set to 16.

Another thing to consider, are the clicks audible in the context of a full mix? If not, does it matter?

#169

It does not appear to trigger a new voice. If you watch the voices indicator, it triggers the same voice and cuts itself off, quite audibly for certain sounds. There is no setting in the voices menu that remedies this. I also have a Reface DX, and it’s impossible to get it to cut itself off like this. I assume because it’s using a different voice and not attempting to recycle the same one.

I would like to emphasize that this is only a problem in a few patches, but when it is a problem there is little you can do about it.

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#170

Well I dunno, my digitone works exactly as described here, manual page 33

20191219_163635
20191219_1636351728×2304 1.35 MB

Each new note triggers a subsequent voice, and voice stealing occurs according to the settings applied.
Unless Im designing a bass patch, I usually have locked voices set to zero: cycle.

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#171

I can’t replicate this. It sounds completely normal and no clicks are present. :man_shrugging:t2:

#172

So with cycle, a note is not cut by itself (with enough polyphony)?
I already asked above…nobody answered.

#173

You are correct @sezare56

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#174

Unless they changed the implementation quite recently a repeated note will NOT use a new voice, but re-use the existing voice (so it may cut the previous sounding one short).

That got clearly confirmed by @Ess here:

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#175

Chiming in to say the clicks infuriate me as well. Set to Cycle, a C note set to 16 trigs will only utilize a single box in the voice menu. Furthermore, a looping set of 2 triads with a shared note and long release give an audible pop as the shared note re-triggers itself using the same voice. Watching its behavior in the voice menu you can clearly see there are two other voices available but the machine opts to reset the voice assigned to the shared note.

It’s not something I have to deal with every time I use the device depending on what I’m making but having to go through all the menus to find a way to remedy it when it does happen is time consuming and annoying. I’ve tried every solution mentioned in this thread and they either don’t work or change the sound in different ways.

I’ve recently been considering trading mine in for a Digitakt, though ideally I would like to have both :cry:

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#176

“So with cycle, a note is not cut by itself (with enough polyphony)?
I already asked above…nobody answered.”

This is sometimes correct. Sometimes not.

As I suggested above, use the “pad thai” patch and try the C C C C… thing. Every single note will click as it cuts itself off. Setting voices to cycle doesn’t help, as it keeps cycling to the exact same voice. It will play without clicks If you play C D E F.

Patches with a percussive attack, you won’t notice it at all. But patches with a soft attack , you will. I feel this is a firmware snafu and elektron should address it.

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#177

I spent an hour trying to replicate the clicky behaviour others are reporting.
I could only get clicks when I deliberately set the envelopes and voicing to make it click.
I didnt even get clicks triggering the same voice ( unless, as above, set envelopes to make it click)

Anyway, I found some very pleasing sounds during my experiment and I plan to use them in my next projects. I love the digitone!

#178

:slightly_smiling_face:
Video/Audio examples?

I’m sure I’d click with it too! :tongue:

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#179

Dude, I tried to record something. Instead I got lost for two hours in a DFAM + Digitone weirdo harmonic jam out. The DFAM clicks way more than the Digitone. Which is expected due to it being a monosynth with very limited envelope controls.

And thats the thing, when I do get the digi to click, it is not unpleasant, nor unmusical. And in a mix, not very noticeable.

So I dunno, it just doesnt seem to be an issue for me. :man_shrugging:

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#180

I’ve dealt with the clicks since I’ve owned mine. Depending on the patch, sometimes the click sounds bad. In a mix it’s not a huge thing, but sometimes you may solo that particular sound in a mix. Then it becomes click city and you’ve just been elected mayor.

There are ways around the clicks like others have discovered and shared here, so not a deal breaker for me. I love my DN too much to trip about it.

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