I’m just fucking glad @thegiantarm is speaking up rn.
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happens all the time man.
“RTFM - use search!” door meets face
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Touché.
Weirdly enough, I had this morning a conversation on the subject with the woman I love.
Thx for expressing yourself @thegiantarm.
Thx @CarlMikaelBjork for your open mind.
I’d buy you a drink if you were closer 
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I’m curious, any examples of these? Although it’s totally understandable if you don’t want to share links here publicly…
fwiw I’ve never fully identified with a cis heterosexual mindset. Heck, when I was a teenager, I was ahamed of my gender. I can totally understand how excessive brobrobro behaviour would be a chore. And I am very glad that I do not mostly feel such a vibe over here.
But since I am not female, there are undoubtedly a lot of subtle behaviour that escapse me. I believe this has something to do with “the male angle” concept that user @thermionic was talking about some times back in that thread that trainwrecked because of my naivety and thoughtless comments?
Still, I would like to point out that these issues are quite difficult to discuss online, heck they are difficult to discuss even IRL. There is a lot of cultural bias and projecting occurring from both gender viewpoints that muddy the waters very easily.
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Yes. It is hard. But, to me at least, this is a very valuable and generous discussion. There is a reason that this is the forum where I hang the most. This thread somewhere else could have been a total hate fest.
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I do think this forum has some decent moderation and obviously some folks who care about keeping things fun and open for everyone. That’s a great start. Nipping bullshit in the bud helps a LOT.
But here’s a question for all of you: do you know women who use Elektron gear, and if you do, do you invite them here? Or if not Elektron, do you invite women musicmakers/producers into other forums relevant to the gear they use? Do you even know any women personally who also make music, whether with software or gear or otherwise? If no, do you seek them out? (Genuine questions that I do not know the answers to for all of you. I am curious.)
If you don’t, there’s part of your answer. If you do, do you also keep your bros in check if they act like sexist fuckwits in those same forums? Because that really is a crucial part of this. Because here’s a concept to sit with: sexism and gender inequality is not something that women made. It’s a male problem with strong roots in keeping men in power and women without it. And women have worked hard to try to right this because we’re the ones most obviously affected by it, but you guys are affected by it too (just maybe not in directly horrible ways). You yourself might not have started it, you may even think it’s terrible. But you have benefited from it, and you’re gonna have to put in some actual work to fix it.
And that means big stuff but also little stuff like don’t refer to your gear as a woman and/or in weirdly creepy sexual terms, don’t do that ‘my wife will get mad if I spend more time with synths than her’ thing, don’t comment on a woman’s looks before her music, don’t assume women are less technical (we’re not, some of us are quite geeky), don’t default to “he” when talking about music nerds, notice when a music manufacturer uses blatantly sexist marketing and call them on it, etc.
This is a cool forum, and I am glad the question is being asked. I just sincerely hope that history doesn’t repeat itself, because literally every other place I have been involved with where this question has been asked online generally devolves into some heavy ignorance and men overtalking women. And if you have to ask the question, then you have to be willing to listen to the answers without getting defensive.
I would like to be more active here, but I will always default to just hanging out with my sisters if I don’t feel I am taken seriously or even listened to elsewhere, tbh.
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All of this.
Also, companies need to hire more women. Hire women and you will attract more women to your products.
I was happy to see that the bike shop next to my work was hiring, specifically looking for a woman, as women feel more comfortable buying bike clothes and what not from a fellow woman.
Meanwhile, at NAMM…
and the year before that…
and the year before that…
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This forum is nearly always helpful for noob questions? Certainly was for me. RTFM is legit (albeit in compassionate) response if someone clearly hasnt even tried to figure shit for themselves. Male or female. Noob or experienced. Sometimes people say RTFM to genuinely be helpful. Often it’s gonna give someone waaaay better understanding than one long ass post would.
This is all just your experience tho right? You can’t speak for all womenkind… No more than I could speak for all men. And seems like you’re kind of saying that a ton of forum users/posts are shitty toward women. I really don’t feel like that’s true on this forum…
I know a lot of female musicians and none of them have forum sob stories, inequality vibes etc. Quite the opposite in many cases. And I have noob male friends that wouldn’t feel comfortable posting on a forum like this one. Threads like this seem kind of distorted to me for a variety of reasons…
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So true.
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While there is some moderation here, and some clumsy jokes that smell like remainings of this world we live in that makes it harder for women, I haven’t seen this community going hard on women users.
When @YloopZ said she was a woman, absolutely no one got unfriendly or any of the wrong behaviors you describe above.
If I’m wrong please let me know, @YloopZ.
Never ever read wrong words about nationality either. Even as a joke.
I think in general Nauts tend to be respectful, considering each other as fellow musicians rather than categorizing people as one would or not identify oneself with…
Certainly such conversation will make people cautious of their own words in the near future.
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families put the household task on women and put the “bread earner” task on men. if that is a privilege or a form of oppression is down to each individual case. i for example was terrorized by my family for wanting to work with music for a living. that’s just not what a man is supposed to do. a man is supposed to bring the money home and not be involved in the arts. if i was female, i would have gotten away with it a lot easier. i am doing ok in the music industry now, but could be much better off had i ever had any support from my family.
Claiming men are not negatively affected by gender inequality and only profit from it is plain nonsense. everybody suffers from it and everybody profits from it as well. things are not that simple.
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…which brings us back to the essence of CIS. A complex one to tackle innit
However I feel that we live in a world that is still harder for women, overall.
Inequalities on both side, but more on women I feel.
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Right.
Trying hard to understand how the average white American woman, who makes 80% of what her male white counterpart makes (in 2017) for the same work is profiting?
It’s worse for women of color.
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Not the same work. What that stat is referencing is overall averages and does not take into account different life choices. It also doesn’t take into account the Equal Pay Act of 1963
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Huh? How is that offensive? So people can’t mention certain aspects of their life depending on what sex their partner is? That’s life for a lot of people. Partners aren’t always cool. It’s only ‘wife’ cos/when it’s being written by a straight man. If the person posting was gay it’d be saying boyfriends/partners whatever. If you wrote ‘my husband will be pissed if I spend more time with my synths’…big deal. Unoffended.
My girlfriend is super cool about my music so it’s not something I’ve ever written, but if she wasnt I’d possibly have mentioned it at some point. Youve made a lot of really interesting/enlightening points but stuff like this one seems kind of ridiculous?
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the difference is 6% in similar jobs. we should stick with facts.
I made it more succinct than “jobs that require the same level of skill”
report:
http://www.aauw.org/aauw_check/pdf_download/show_pdf.php?file=The-Simple-Truth
thread nosediving hard rn
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