What's your experience with hardware FM synths?

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

I’ve been half tempted to pick up a Yamaha TX 81z (especially) or TX7, which have popped up on local listings, because I reckon their character is still unique; I dove into FM8 a few years back and was pleased with quire a few sounds I managed to build from INIT, but IMO it somehow lacks the mojo / depth of the HW original DX/TX 7. I guess this has a lot to do with the converters. I’ve decided against getting the TX 81z or TX7 because a} fear of hardware failure b) more mousing around to build patches c) I do plenty of mousing around creating FM patches on a G2 engine - on which you can roll you’re own FM synths in addition to it’s DX7 emulation modules d) using them in a live setup, sequenced by the OT and a controller would probably be stressful (see point a), and what with no visual feedback, opaque in a live setting. I’m pretty much set on getting a Digitone - hands on, deep synthesis, and while it doesn’t have the character a la TX 81z / 7, I do really like it’s sound from the Elektron demos and some great usage examples posted on this site. Mutitimbral (I need) and the filtering for shortcuts is a a big plus.

From the other in-production offerings, the Kodamo FM is quite tempting - 8 outs, loads of FX types, but less hands on and I’d spend way to much time building patches.

If you’ve read this far, I appreciate it! Please share your HW FM ventures/experiences. And if you settled for software (some very good options now), did you find a neat integration of it into a live setup?

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#2

I’ve owned most of the Yamaha DX series in their rack/desktop incarnations: TX81z, TX802, TG77, FS1r, DX200, TG33.

Right now I’ve got an OPSIX, Volca FM Mk1, Volca Modular and Reface DX.
On the software side, I’ve got FM8, Ableton’s Operator and the OPSIX VST. I mostly use Operator.

I don’t have a Digitone, but I do have a Monomachine, and the FM engines seem similar if not identical.

The MnM’s FM engines give you training wheels - it is very easy to create sounds that sound good/interesting, but they are also highly quantized.

In your situation, I’d probably lean towards getting the Digitone and maybe also an OPSIX. You can do plenty with 4-op Elektron FM, but the OPSIX is fantastically powerful and easy to use. If you like FM, it is a good stepping stone on the way to a Kodamo.

If you love the TX81z sound, I wouldn’t worry too much about hardware failure. Mine arrived half dead, but I was able to recap the digital power rails before the eBay seller responded to my query. The price was right, so ultimately I told the seller to not worry and just kept it.

I would absolutely, 100% avoid the FS1r, as it is the epitome of a VST in a box. My favorite classic DX series machine was the TG77. Very easy to program from the front panel, and I loved the looping envelopes. The reverb was surprisingly good for its vintage too.

Happy to answer any more specific questions you might have.

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#3

learned FM on the old 4-op DXs (DX-27 and DX-11). got a Digitone Keys when last year when I got back into it. it’s not as straightforward as an analog polysynth, esp ones where the programming knobs/sliders are on the front panel. but generally rewarding with a wide range of sounds and textures you’re probably not gonna get with analog. bass patches especially. just have to accept that the learning curve is steep and not the format for getting thick, lush, fat sounds compared to a classic analog. Digitone’s filter and LFOs are a game changer for me compared to the 4-op DXs’ sounds., really opens up the typical FM sound quite nicely.

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#4

@obscurerobot you have much HW FM experience indeed! From looking at specs the OPSIX synth engine is in many respects deeper / more flexible than the Digitone, and it looks hands on. In this thread someone said the OPSIX is bi-timbral, but after a glance at the midi specs in the manual, I don’t see this is the case. Would much appreciate if you could clarify.

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#5

I’ve experienced plenty of this with the Nord G2, but unfortunately I only have the engine, so no visual feedback and direct interaction. Fine for home studio, but not live manipulation.

#6

I’m 99.9999% sure that it is monotimbral.

If you want a six-op FM drum monster, the TX-802 is the one to get. 16 voices, 8-part multitimbral and 8 individual outs. The menu structure is easy to work with if you’ve internalized the DX architecture.

Edit: I saw the two comments in that thread, they are saying that you can “sort of” get multitimbrality via key splits/tracking. I don’t doubt that is possible, but it’s stretching the definition of multitimbrality. Safer to consider the OPSIX and monotimbral and not rely on hacks like that.

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#7

I used to have a DX7s but I wasn’t crazy about the keybed and velocity response so I sold it. Recently I picked up a tx7 module that I play with a 5 octave keyboard and sequence from the syntakt and I love it. I know it doesn’t have the analog multiplexing from the DX7 but its 12 bit still sounds better than the DX7s’ 15 bit or whatever it has, to my ears. I edit it from Plogue OPS7 which also sounds fantastic, I just needed some 6 operator hardware for when I don’t want to look at a screen.

Everyone loves the Korg opsix for editing ease and volca fm is so affordable. Never tried a Digitone but if it had the option to be a little grittier/ 12 bit I would probably grab one

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#8

I definitely get a similar impression. I’d prefer bit reduction or vintage modes instead of the distortion. Then again, judging from the OT bit reduction, it’s not Elektron’s strong point!

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#9

Yeah I feel that! But the bits and clap machine on Syntakt, and from the videos the brr/srr on digitakt make me think it’s possible for the tone. That with a little added warmth or compressor on the tone would probably be sufficient for my uses.

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#10

Maybe we could rally perspective Digitone customers to submit a feature request to Elektron. " really want to by a Digitone but…" The promise of extra sales might just spur their incentive.

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#11

I owned too many FM synths and plugins to feel comfortable admitting to, but for the sake of this conversation I’ll cop to the EssenceFM, Digitone, and TX816. FM, more than most synthy engines, sounds pretty similar between implementations. There can be differences introduced by the resolution of the sines and (especially!) shapes/phases of the envelopes. But generally, the maths are identical and so is the output.

Personally, I don’t hear the mojo in those older Yamaha boxes (excepting literally broken things like YM2612-based kit). But to the extent it’s there, it has to come down to the output stage, as you suggest, and there’s a whole world of gear that can mojo that up if you feel its missing.

Therefore, to me, FM — particularly hardware FM — comes down to the interface. And there’s no better interface IMHO than the EssenceFM (though I hear universally positive things about the OPSIX as well).

Then also, the Digitone deserves special mention. Saying it makes FM sounds is like saying the Digitakt “plays samples”. It’s true, but it’s what happens in and around that that makes the device special. The FM is there and beautiful, but it’s just beginning of the sound as opposed to the end. This makes it pretty unique in the space still, after all these years.

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#12

Damn you, now I’m considering the keys for the 4 outputs. But big thanks for your observations.

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#13

You don’t hear a difference in the way the original DX7 sounds? That’s the one I think has the most extra softness in the upper register, personally

#14

Mine’s now living in a friend’s rack and I don’t know if he’s turned it on recently but the tx81z I bought in Spain in 1995 (without a manual lol) and did one European band tour with in 2010 was 100% reliable and felt like a box it should be easier than many to maintain.

Plus, it has the ‘Lately Bass’ preset in it. I rinsed the snot out of that long before I knew it was a thing. Do not get any FM synth that doesn’t let you recreate its architecture imo

#15

Nope. If it’s very much in the upper registers, I probably lost the ability to hear it before I got into FM. And, to be fair, I’ve been told I don’t have a very discerning ear, regardless.

On the other hand, a discerning ear sounds like the sort of thing that makes one faff around collecting unobtanium rather than making music :wink:

If I was trying hard to match, say, an existing FM track in a mix, and decided it was really missing a certain something that I couldn’t fix with EQ, filters, or saturation, I’d consider running it through Chipcrusher. I’ve heard fantastic things about it and love Plogue. But I’m just not picky enough for it to have ever come up.

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#16

I agree that most of this is possible with processing and it basically doesn’t matter unless you need it that way out of the box. I really love chipcrusher.

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#17

My advice is to find what kind of FM sounds you really want to use in your music, simple sounds with lofi character or complex evolving sounds from modern equipment. I used to be really focused on needing 6 operators but recently I realized I’m mostly interested in exploring simple sounds that reveal the character of older hardware. If you’re interested in vintage character its possible to achieve similar sounds from modern equipment like the digitone but it takes a lot of work.

On the flip side, if you’re interested in really wild sounds and want to get the most out of 6 operators or weird LFO usage I’d recommend the DN, opsix or essence. It’s possible on vintage hardware but a much bigger task. Just keep in mind that the digitone has some serious limitations (and some features) that other modern FM synths do not have.

#18

Something I learned from the TX816 is that 4 ops is really the sweet spot for FM sounds. More than that, and I find what I’m actually trying to do is squeeze a multitimbral sound into a single patch when it’d actually play much better layered. Despite its embarrassment of ops, all my best 816 patches were spreading simple 2op pairs across the 8 blades, first layering to fill gaps in harmonics, and then using long ENVs to fill gaps in time.

Thankfully, pretty much all modern hardware lets you make multitimbral layered patches for free. Same results for a lot less hassle.

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#19

The Twisted Electrons MEGAfm seems to be one of the only one-knob-per-function hardware FM synths out there AFAICT, I think it sounds amazing and I find it very fun to make patches and improvise with. Definitely quite gritty and lo-fi though the Mk2 version sounds much cleaner and louder if that’s preferable. It’s not multitimbral though so I guess it would be no good for you.

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#20

Maybe worth a quick mention of some lesser known Yamaha 4-op keyboards with quick editing, multi-timbrality, and FX:

YS100
YS200
B200
DS55
TQ5 (desktop module)

Can often be picked up quite cheap.

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