I currently use the Model:Cycles which I love - but I’m looking for something more powerful for full songs and sound design. Ideally, I want sampler‑based hardware, because I have lots of instruments and sing, but I also want to create otherworldly textures around delicate, melodic vocals. Being able to step away from Ableton is a huge plus.
I’m inspired by Thom Yorke’s approach on Anima and his solo work - particularly how he blends synthy sound‑design with sample‑based rhythms, slicing, and manipulated loops, alongside analogue drum patterns that can ebb and flow around the vocals. I’d like something with a dedicated, flexible drum section similar to the Analog Rhythm.
I’m not sure what to start with - I was thinking about the Tonverb because it seems capable of these kinds of things. Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated!
— Phil
Tonverk sounds pretty much perfect for what you’re trying to do.
At the same time, coming from a Tonverk user (and recovering gear hoarder), as much as you may not want to hear it, Ableton is always going to be the best.
theres also akai mpc III , force / one+ … it has sampling, synth plugins and fx… touch screen… its quite modern but does have a different workflow and may feel a bit like a daw in a box.
also maschine +
analog rytm can do some nice synthy sounds too, can be found fairly cheaply for mk1 .
lots of options … and lots of videos on youtube that i’d recommend you watch … ultimately it has to catch your eye and fit within your budget.
I’d consider the Torso S4 if you want a focus on soundscapes over arrangements or the MPC platform is very flexible and fully featured for longer arrangements including synth and audio tracks, especially for the price of used units, if you can live with the touch screen.
The S4 interface is very creative and pretty unique. It really lends itself to exploration and interesting ambient sounds, but the sequencing paradigm is less useful for creating full tracks than elektron or the akai stuff. Still a super interesting sampler for sound design and the purposes stated.
You can do everything with MPC Live, but it’s a daw-oriented workflow, and that might not be what you’re looking for.
The TV seems fantastic, but you’ll lack flexibility for manipulating samples compared to the S4 or DT2.
In my opinion, you have two options:
MPC if you like the workflow
a synth + sampler combo, such as (DN2 or TV) + (DT2 or S4). Of course, there are other possible combinations with other machines.
Personally, I have the DT2+DN2 combo and it’s very powerful. Eventually, I’d like to add the TV for routing and effects (in a dawless setup).
And actually when you embrace it you get a lot more control with less faff.
Maybe it’s important to understand why it’s a big plus.
Especially as Thom Yorke uses Ableton Live’s clip workflow as part of his process (in addition to various other bits of gear of course).
Most professional musicians lean on DAWs heavily or entirely because for writing full songs you’re often too limited by groove boxes - which can be great for generating phrases or ideas, parts and of course using them as instruments, but are very opinionated when it comes to composition. Elektron especially rely on a tracker metaphor for sequencing, which I love, but is far from the ideal mechanism to compose many if not most genres of music.
In the Elektron world, I believe Tonverk could be the right instrument for what you describe.
It will be a bit more focused than Ableton, but at first you might feel a bit disoriented, coming from the Model:Cycles, cause it has several layers and you need to navigate from one to the other.
If you choose this path, I advise to focus on the instrument and experiment a lot to see all the directions it can lead you to.
But yes, it’s a good tool to start from scratch, experiment with sound design, and build a track.
Just be aware it might need a level of dedication at first.
Tonverk is the closest to what you’re describing, but as of the moment it doesn’t slice (and it’s an open question as to whether it will or not in future). Outside that budget range there are others already mentioned here (MPC, Ableton). The other thought I have is maybe it could be possible with a combo for cheap. For example a slicing sampler like the KO-2, paired with one that does granular like the P6. That can be had for comparatively little money and with a bit of practice could get some interesting results within those constraints.
Just to clarify - I’m not trying to step away from Ableton for all creative work. Ableton’s clip workflow, looping, and FX will still be invaluable for shaping the songs, arranging, and sculpting vocals and guitars.
What I’m looking for is a way to create the raw layers elsewhere: things like sending vocals out to be looped, mangled, or granulated, building loops from a single guitar note, or even turning some of my imported samples into playable instruments — while also having hands-on hardware drums (something in the spirit of the Analog Rytm).
So I’d still be bringing everything back into Ableton for arrangement and refinement, but I’m hoping for a piece of hardware with its own “brain” that lets me spark ideas, make beats from samples, mangle audio, and get a few layers interacting before pulling them into the DAW.
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TL;DR:
Not leaving Ableton — still arranging and sculpting there. I want a hardware “brain” for the early spark: making beats from my own recordings, mangling vocals/guitar loops, building instruments from imported samples, and jamming with some hands-on drums before sending layers back into Ableton.
Toneverk has pretty much everything you need especially now that it has a granular machine. The sequencer will help with beats etc
Torso S4 has some unique processing and can probably mangle sounds in more interesting ways but it has no sequencer so you need to get that separately.
Polyend Tracker also can cover a lot of what you want but can feel like using a DAW … might be too ‘programmer’ for some.
Opxy might get you there with its multi sampling features and sequencer but sound mangling is pretty limited so you will have to be more creative with resampling or using an effects unit with it.
My top two choices would be tonverk or the s4. Honorable mention would go to octatrack or some esoteric modular system
I use both but I have a much nicer sleep quality when I use Tonverk vs Ableton. Staring at a big screen and setting up things with Ableton make me too nervous while Tonverk is a much more zen experience
…when it comes to swedish sampling, ot remains THE everlasting most flexible…
and dt1 the most universal dead simple one to imagine…
both pretty affordable on the 2nd hand market…
purchasing tv right now means spending a little too much at the given moment…
it’s pricetag will drop quite a bit next year…
and as said here before, if u can get over the tactile advantages of hw, a daw like ableton or bitwig covers ALL sample magic there possible is and ever was…
