But isn’t the issue being discussed in this thread that is exactly someone not doing it as a hobby?
I am not one for 4 on the floor techno.
I came of age in the 80s and remember what Ralph Hutter had to say regarding the meaning of techno.
I do however appreciate the use of sound and air pressure in a club environment and I also have a soft spot for minmal
Most music is similar to pop in the regard that very few talented artists make it to the top
The waste is always pushed to the sutface while the best either drown or bob along
For the life me I still don’t understand the fuss regarding the biggest artists in electronic music at this moment in rime
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And while i am a hobby pizza or thai chef, i still enjoy a good restaurant, which has a professional chef hired. I dont see that people will stop playing and paying for music, just because they can make it by themself. People that try it themself, might even get more respect for the professional, because they appreciate the work /result even more. When i found a good artist, i also check their old releases - my recent discovery was kliment - and i found that he already made his sound in 2013 - so he worked clearly his signature sound. And i have great respect for that.
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Generally, yes, true. Not always though.
I also agree mostly with your points, except the still loving techno (and minimal techno) too, but also want to point out what I have increasingly heard from various sources, and that is that the underground does not exist anymore. It is dead. It died a long time ago. What we have now is an aesthetic of underground but nothing else. Some would say it is because with social media and the internet you can find any artist and their entire catalogue of music in seconds. Which makes sense, but then again how would you even find that hypothetical artist if you are not looking for them? If you do not know of their existence?
Others may argue that it died because of the EDM explosion in the late 2000’s when skrillex and the pop takeover we saw with david guetta etc. The commercialization and mainstreamization of the culture and the advent of social media made the “underground” a viable industry for many who probably looked at “the underground” as an easy way to break through without a lot of musical talent or skill, but with a knack for marketing and social media.
I want to go beyond these points and argue that, in my opinion, the underground probably long before, and what older millenials like myself experienced in the early 2000s was not the underground. Not the real underground at least, but the manufactured underground, one that looked, felt, and sounded underground, but in reality wasn’t.
In a way, Punk and dance music share this trajectory of having been birthed as the sound of the oppressed, only to turn into a business later on. Filled with posers ready to milk them til the last drop whilst retaining the aura of credibility under the guise of being “underground”.
Dance music was born as a place for community and acceptance. The black, latino, gay communities created house/techno to get away from the reactionary society that did not welcome them. Somewhere along the way it was co-opted and whitewashed, and now you even have reactionaries being part of the space. I believe the same happened with Hip Hop too if I understand correctly now theres conservative rappers or MAGA rappers. I have been so away from the scene for years now that I have not heard but is there a MAGA DJ or artist? There is probably someone in Techno grifting to the right cause thats what makes you money the easy way 
Neoliberalism to blame? Probably. Capitalism? 100%. We ought to remember, fascism is capitalism in decline.
Now show me the video essay fleshing these ideas out and I will love every second of it. EVERY SECOND OF IT.
Had never heard of this James Hype guy. What talent, much awesome, such taste:
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I think my comment might was more about hobbyists’ (myself included) occasional over-confidence in their understanding of the music field (or of cooking, cycling, or photography), and of what it takes to produce a good track.
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Hahahah, not a video essay but I think you captured exactly what the article I posted “Geeks, mops, and sociopaths in subculture evolution” talks about: Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution | Meaningness
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I don’t know, maybe that’s just my understanding of the topic, but I have the feeling the thread might be derailing?
How I understood it is: a lot of the output in techno sound quite similar. Why did this guy achieved stardom, and this obscure guy didn’t, when, at the end of the day, both sound just as good/bad?
(It seems music quality/genre is beyond the point)
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I guess another aspect of this today is the way algorithms favour ‘sameness’. The tracks/artists pushed the by recommendations on Spotify etc. are the ones that sound the most like others.
So the tracks that are the least idiosyncratic pop up more, people listen to them, other artists start looking at what’s popular, try to mimic that and so on… All reinforcing the same drive towards the middle of the road.
Good article about why a Pavement B-side suddenly became their most famous track.
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Kliment is GOAT, imo him Krumelur is what’s wrong with Zenon, they all just trying to copy them 
Check out Krumelur Minimal Animal from 2002 and Paramoral 2006! you’ll hear a lot of modern Zenon sound from ~20 years ago…
they are really who’s shaped the success of Zenon Records imo.
OP, it’s ok to dislike something even though it’s very popular.
I, for example, for the life of me, cannot understand how someone can tolerate 5 minutes of Tomorrowland, drop after drop after drop after drop, like one giant headache.
but apparently masses of people love it and that music played there, and the names playing that event are yyyyuuuge, so imo it’s not really about the music rather the promotion as @chaocrator mentioned, they come for the massive sound, the epic production, stuff like that.
my favorite techno artists are barely scratching several hundreds of monthly listeners on spotify and maybe over 10k plays per track, which are measly numbers compared to let’s say… James Hype fella who’s got almost 13 million listeners and hundreds of millions streams.
I was once arguing with someone about how Dream Theater is “good music” while Muse is utter crap, just because half a song of Dream Theater contains more original music then 2 albums of Muse. so that person told me a sentence that made sense to me: “well, what if the person doesn’t understand or want to understand such complex music? what if they don’t get it and it’s too much for them?”
same goes for every genre, some artists pushing the boundaries of music and that’s NOT what most people want to hear, they want to hear “cosy”, that’s why simplified things are way more popular while the innovative, interesting stuff is not… especially in electronic music which is way easier for bedroom producers like us to push into the world as we don’t need bands or band members, we just record our stuff and throw it into the wild
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Would you say this to any reaggy band after Bob Marley? I just see it as guys following an idea/ L, so if you like something you pick up your guitar and follow your heros. I dont see nothing wrong with that. Same with Epitaph Records, establishing and maintaining a style adds to culture imho. Maybe i am simple, but i have CD collection of 10 or so Bad Religion records, they are not as raw as 《How could hell be any worse》 the first album, but damm they had nice melodies. There are also c64 covers of Bad Religion songs, they show the essentail song writing, which is carried out with great detail.
not a reggae fan 
thing is, my real problem with zenon is that they stopped picking innovative artists, at the beginning they were getting all kinds of weird techno/trance artists like Florian MSK, Sourone, but after that duo Triforce they all started to sound the same to me… I don’t blame them, a label in a niche music gotta do what they gotta do, I just with they’d give more “different” artists a chance…
Folks I think it’s time to admit that some of us are getting old.
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Listen to Joel Mull - Arrow of Time and Naan Boys - It’s a Love Song and tell me what you think.
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I admit it. Most new music doesn’t sound better than what I was listening to 25 years ago. Still find some new gems though. Like Irradial.
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“Music is like ass, it’s fine or it’s not” -Lemmy
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classic lemmy. i think there’s a small percentage of any genre that is really good… from country to disco house to whatever… but it’s hard to find sometimes unless someone is living in that scene and knows…
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I relate more to that than anything posted in this thread or another one where I was digressing into the topic, the illusion of popularity and good music.
I’m extremely picky and close minded about music I’ll choose to listen too.
As you kind of stated, I’m into that tiny percent of any genera.
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oh. seems like this thread needs a trancecracker…
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I’m super late to the Techno party.
Over the last 3 decades I’ve been that poor art observer “I can do that.”
From hanging around this forum and a few DJ friends, I’ve finally understood what Techno I like.
If I try to make Techno on purpose, it reminds me of all the tracks I hear of people attempting hip hop.
Rarely I’ll find my groove by accident, especially with some of the new RYTM updates.
I like it when it’s fairly simple and the sounds breathe and I can zone out on those textures.
This topic is interesting to me because there is a desire/struggle to sound complex or interesting making any music, yet my favorite songs to hear or ones that I have made had the complexity stripped out of them.
My main battle is realizing I shouldn’t try so hard, just let if flow and hit record A LOT, then sift through it all and keep the gems.
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Hahah, hillarious ! Meme. Now all -> go dancing 
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