Using Tape Machines

I’m a big fan of groups like Rezzitt, Boards of Canada and other lo-fi dudes. This got me looking in to VSTs that would emulate “lo-fi”/Vinyl sounds, as well as a few pedals like Bliss Audio’s Warped Vinyl and a really cool one called Shallow Waters. Unfortunately the latter options are pricey, and the former are just…lame.

This got me thinking I should do the real deal and use some actual tape machines I have laying around. Namely I have an Akai reel to reel, and I could probably afford to buy a 4 track tape player or dictaphone.

Process wise I’m a little murkey though. Do most people direct line record their DAW tracks to tape and then send it back in to the computer? Re-amp and record to tape using mics? Or do you skip the tape/recording part altogether and just use the machines as a preamp/effect of sort? Would be really curious to hear what people do.

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I use a three head deck, print to tape and record off the play head straight to DAW, in one pass.

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If I’m understanding correctly, this means you run your drum machine/synth/whatever in to the tape machine, and the sound is recorded to tape, and then instantaneously passed from the tape to your DAW via the outs?

Also, would I be able to do the above process with a reel to reel (one pass recording)?

It’s pretty easy if you have a mixer with FX send. Just plug the FX Send into the tape machine’s in, and then plug the tape machine out into another channel on your mixer. Then start recording on the tape. You can then turn up the FX send on the channel receiving the tape out and get tape delay feedback. If you’re lucky your tape machine has multiple speeds! You can do this with your audio interface too if you have FX sends and enough inputs.

I have a Focusrite 18i8, which I would assume has the proper outputs and inputs. I also just looked at my reel to reel and realized it does have 3 heads (erase, record, play). Speeds are 7.5 and 3 and 3/4.

So I would run audio out of my DAW in to the focusrite, which would go out in to the reel to reel tape machine while it’s recording, and then the tape machine’s outs would go back in to the Focusrite/DAW? Something like that?

yes, any decent r2r has three heads, erase, record, repro/play.

make sure you are monitoring the repro head, and send that to your daw for one-pass tape layback of prerecorded material. there will be a delay to the sound coming off tape, so if you need to monitor realtime, like if you are overdubbing etc, best to do that off your mixer before you hit tape.

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Does anyone use a reel to reel machine to record their gear?

If so how do they work in your setups. I’m confused and very curious about them

Anyone here using R2R? If so, what are you using, what’s your experience with it etc.

I have a number of old reel-to-reel machines (Tascam 58, Teac 80-8, Teac 22-4, and Fostex A8) and still call them into play on occasion. Only the Fostex works dependably. It’s also the lowest-end of the bunch, cramming eight tracks on a mere 1/4” of tape. Still, it has a nice lo-fi sound. On the plus side, that means the tape is much less expensive than the 1/2” tape used my my other two 8-track machines.

Watch out for sticky relays (a common problem on Tascam/Teac machines) and hardened or crumbling rubber pinch rollers. Belts are often a problem, too. These machines can be frustrating, often breaking down and with very few options for repair or maintenance. And they do require maintenance. Biasing and alignment are a fact of life with tape.

Tape isn’t cheap, but don’t try to save money with used or NOS tapes, as many old brands used adhesives that will have broken down, leaving a nasty residue all over your tape heads.

I really enjoy working on tape. When I first started making music (40 years ago) I recorded my songs by using two tape machines and a mixer for sound-on-sound recordings, dreaming that I might one day afford a reel-to-reel multitrack. I graduated to Portastudios, but cassettes didn’t offer the freedom of reels, which were easier to cut and splice.

Now I mainly use tape when I want the lo-if sound, forced limitations, and/or to get my ears more involved than my eyes,

As much as I love it, I am beginning to feel that it is becoming too difficult to deal with. The cost of tape makes me hesitant to waste it, and it’s getting harder to find someone to work on the machines.

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This is all great info! I was wondering about the difference in quality between 1/4" tape running at 19cm (7.5 ips) and my 4 track cassette running at 9.4cm, if you have any thoughts? For lofi, I’m happy with cassettes / dictaphones – reel to reel would need to be able to do a bit more hifi for me (as well as low speed lofi…). But all the maintenance stuff is concerning :see_no_evil:

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You might indeed be familiar with this video by Hainbach, where he lays out the alternatives for R2R machines pretty nicely (also some other tape machines and there’s a separate video for dictaphones).

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@korpinen - absolutely, I really enjoy Hainbach stuff and I have seen this. But it’s a shame that he skips 4 track, doesn’t do any sound comparisons, and focuses a lot on the pricier end of the market! These days, most of us have to look a bit further down the market unless you’re prepared to spend £1k+ on these rareties.

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Yeah that’s not a comprehensive guide by any means. A pretty good overview anyway. I was looking at R2R’s last year and came to the conclusion Revox would be the best choice. Something like a Nagra would be beautiful obviously but I’m not prepared to pay that kinda money for something that I’d kinda want to have in my arsenal.

Actually I bought a Revox B77 from an online auction last autumn. It was advertised as “immaculate”. Arrived dusty, broken, dirty AF. Finally, six months later got my money back. However, it was a lesson learned and reality check for me that I absolutely don’t want to spend my little precious free time (or money) repairing machines.

As a rule of thumb, the wider a track is, the better it’s going to sound. Ditto for tape speed. Faster speeds=better sound. Theoretically, a 1/4” reel-to-reel 4-track running at 7 1/2 IPS is going to sound better than a 4-track cassette running at 3.75. A 1/2” 8-track running at 15 IPS will sound better than a 1/4” 8-track running at 15 IPS.

But in reality, it will depend on a lot of other factors, such as the quality of the tape and condition of the deck in use. A lightly-used Tascam Portastudio might sound better than a 1/2” 8-track that has been poorly maintained. Sometimes a deck merely needs a good cleaning, head-alignment, or properly biasing for the tape being used. Other times, the heads may too worn to produce acceptable results.

Also, it’s worth noting that when old pros say they like the sound of tape, they are not likely referring to “affordable” machines like, say, a Tascam TRS-8 or Fostex R8, but to the expensive, high end machines they’ve used in studios that kept their gear well-maintained. Tastes and applications have changed and today many people love the lo-if qualities imparted by the cheaper machines. I tend to fall into this latter group. When I use tape machines, it’s because I want to hear their effect on my sound.

For me, a 4-track Tascam Portastudio is often the best way to go. When I need a little more, I might turn to the Fostex A8 reel-to-reel. Most of my other, better quality decks have become too undependable and I don’t want to keep throwing money at them, so they sit in storage. As much as it pains me to say so, once this old Fostex gives up the ghost, I will likely not replace it.

One other point: it’s all but impossible to get a new chrome-based cassette of the sort Portastudios were designed - and biased - to use. Stuffing a normal bias cassette into a 4-track is going to produce a lower-fidelity recording than using the chrome (not metal) tape for which it was designed. As any 4-tracker knows, tapes like Maxell XLS-II and TDK SMPro are getting hard to find on the used market - especially the shorter ones best-suited for 4-track machines. And NOS tapes are getting costly on the used market.

On the other hand, pro-quality reel-tapes are still being produced and sold and most of the more-commonly used pro tapes such as Ampex 456 and 499 are directly replaceable. Mind you, you’re going to pay over $30 per reel in most cases, but it’s nice to know you can crack open a fresh tape that hasn’t been slowing turning to goo in a dark cupboard for the past three decades…

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A much cheaper alternative is a Sony Walkman for peanuts now. With the batteries going dead. :slight_smile:

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Cool thread; I always wanted to try to experiment with reel 2 reel machines since years but due to the lack of flea market in my actual place I always felt a bit skeptical about buying such old devices online; is there any affordable horizontal rr2r tape device you could advice me?

Check out the Uher machine Hainbach talks about in the video above at around 11:30.

Of course if you just want to do some experiments with tape and R2R’s, there are probably some very cheap (although maybe not very reliable) machines out there, like the Tandberg R2R’s, for example.

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I actually have a few NOS chrome’s for my Yamaha 4 track, and it sounds surprisingly good! Have you experimented with recording the same thing across the tracks to essentially give a wider tape? i.e. a mono signal on all 4 tracks? I’ve been meaning to give it a go to see how that sounds.

I’ve got a track in the works that utilises micro-cassette loops which is fun.

I’d love to try the R2R thing. I guess the sweet spot for me would be a portable 7 inch kinda vibe. I’ll keep an eye out in case one pops up that takes my fancy! Meantime I’ve got several 4track experiments to try.

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Never tried that, no. As I said, if I’m recording on tape, I’m looking for the low fidelity.