Understanding Kits, Tracks and Sounds

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

As a beginner using Analog Keys, I need some help with understanding Kits, Tracks and Sounds.

Example:
I load i Kit to use in a Pattern, and I adjust one of the sounds until it becomes perfect. What should I do to save this sound so that
a) it remains exactly as it is the next time I play this pattern
b) I can use this sound in a different pattern later
c) I can change this sound further later without changing how this sound sounded in the first pattern(s) I used it in.

I also don’t fully understand if a sound only can exist within a Kit, or if it can exist freely outside a kit? If two Kits contain the same sound, are they THE SAME sound, or are they two copies?

Is the best way to use the A4 and AK to create a new Kit for each Pattern if I do any changes to the sounds in the Kit?

Any advice here will be helpful. I am trying to learn a new language…

A4 noob am I going about this wrong?
Song mode and Patterns Analog 4 MK2
Kits & patterns connection?
Guide to kits, patterns and linking them together
#2

I have an A4. The sounds are separate and can be saved by themselves.
The kit basically saves the 4 sounds you have chosen, the fx and CV settings and I think the pattern too. ( someone else may need to clarify the link between Kit and Pattern)

If you use the same sound on 2 different kits and tweak them different, the unit should still save those differences when you turn it off, but if you want those differences to be permanent, you would want to save the 2nd sound to a new slot and give it a new name so you have 2 separate saved sounds. When you actively save the sounds, that original state can be reloaded via RELOAD sound.

Hope that helps

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#3

This might be more helpful:

Save sound = [YES/SAVE] + [KEYBOARD D1]
Reload sound to saved state = [NO/RELOAD] + [KEYBOARD D1]

If you load sound A to a new kit, it loads from its saved state, which might not sound the exact same as the same sound A on your other kit if you never manually saved it. When you turn off the unit, it does a temporary saved state to everything you were working on, but this is not the permanent saved state of things ( which require manually saving ). Maybe the temp saved state vs the permananet saved state is what confuses some people.

To save a new sound you have carved out from an existing sound ( and dont want to delete the old sound) go to the sound menu to save it to a new slot/name.

hopefully this doesnt sound like the rantings of a madman.

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#4

Thanks for the response! Let us see if I understand you correctly. I just did this test: I copied pattern A1 to A2, then adjusted some parameter of the sound of track 2 in the first pattern. Automatically, track 2 used this changed sound as well. This is how I interpret this: A sound in a pattern belongs to a Kit. If I make a copy of a pattern - or load the same Kit into two patterns - changing a sound in any of these patterns will change the sound in both - because they share the same Kit. Am I correct?

So, does this mean that the only way to avoid changing how a pattern sound is to create a NEW KIT for every pattern I make?

#5

yes hkrabye you are right you got a pallete of sounds to make kits to use on your patterns that are linked to a specific kit if you copy a pattern the kit is copied too if you want another sound in your kit and pattern #2 you need a new saved sound linked to the pattern #2
i hope it helps :+1:

#6

It sounds like you are correct in this. I see in the manual it states:
“Note that several patterns may be linked to the same kit. Changes you make to the kit while editing
one of the patterns will change the kit and directly affect how the other patterns sound as well.
Remember to save the kit to a new location if you wish to avoid this.”
By “save to a new location” I believe they mean save Kit #2 as something else with a new name.
The manual explanations can be very confusing. Due to the language barrier probably.

Im wondering if a way around creating a new kit might be parameter locks? you could change the sound parameters on KIT 1B sound 1 as parameter locks and then it might not also make the same sound changes on KIT 1A. Let me know the results if you test this.

#7

OK, each Pattern has a palette of sounds (named “Pool”) and these are real copies of the source sounds (which I may pick from the +Drive or fabric presets)? The sounds I assign to the four synth tracks in the pattern, always belong to a Kit. The moment I assign a sound to a track in a pattern, a Kit is created? What’s the name of this Kit, and does it only exist in the Pool? If i want to save this Kit for use in other patterns, should I use the Kit-button, Save Kit and choose an empty slot (My Kit)? Will this Kit be placed on the +Drive only, or both on the +Drive and in the Pool in the Project I am working?

#Hongkong you refer to the manual which says that “several patterns may be linked to the same kit.”, and this means that if I need to adjust any of the sounds in a Kit that is used by more than the pattern I’m working on, I need to first make a copy of the whole Kit?

Hmmm, I can’t help being confused…

A very relevant question: Let’s say I am adjusting a sound and love the result and want to store this sound for later use in other Projects. What is the fastest, easiest correct procedure for storing this sound?

#8

That is my question too… I have had my new Analog Keys for a few days and I have a sound that I edited and want to save just this sound for later use. I want to save it so no existing sound is overwritten.
I am completely loving my new AK, and editing and creating sounds is easy and obvious… but when it comes to saving, it is rather cryptic and I found the manual confusing. It outlines the process of saving a sound, but when I follow the instructions on the AK itself, it does not make sense to me…

Some help appreciated

#9

same here ATM just cannot get my head around the saving concept plus kit, plus pool and +drive
clearly the most ridiculous elektron idea since the ot sampling debracle
plenty of amazing and intuitive synth design options on offer, though

#10

ok, lets see:
a kit consists of 4 sounds which are exclusively stored in the kit. so if you load a sound from the soundpool or the +drive in the kit a copy of the sound is generated inside of the kit. if you tweak the sound within the kit the original sound from the pool/+drive is not touched by it. if you want to save a (maybe tweaked) sound from the kit for later use in another kit you have to save it to the pool or the +drive.
changes in the kit will affect all the sounds of patterns that use the same kit.

the +drive is the big soundsource which will be always available no matter which project you load.

a project contains your patterns and the soundpool. so if you run out of patterns you save your old project and start a new one. you will start at zero with empty patterns, empty soundpool and only the sounds from the +drive are still available.

the soundpool consists of 128 sounds which are available to you for direct use like triglocks. those triglocks will be saved in the pattern, not in the kit. if you overwrite a sound from the soundpool which is used as triglock in a pattern this sound in the pattern will change too.

hope that helps a bit, maybe someone can explain it better…

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#11

I think @audiopuncture explains it pretty well. :+1:

The main thing to remember is that once a Sound is loaded into a track and therefore into a Kit, it’s a copy of the original sound. Changing & saving the source sound elsewhere will not affect this version which is now unique to the Kit.

It’s pretty confusing at first but it makes sense as it stops lots of very similar tweaked duplicates of Sounds ending up in the main sound library, instead they’re just in the Kits being used. You can also copy sounds from a Kit (Track button + Rec button) and paste them into other Kits, handy if you haven’t got that specific copy of the Sound in your main library.

#12

Yes, but how do you do that?

I have a sound edited on my AK… I want to save it for later use.

The manual gives the same conceptual overview as you just did but I still have no idea how to just do the basic task of saving a sound to the +drive.

Thx for your efforts…

#13

You can save under sound - soundmanager. There are tiny arrows on each side when you look closely, the left “arrow key” (or cursor key) open a menu these where you can choose +drive of soundpool, the right arrow key opens the save Option or something. The soundmanager came with the previous update, so maybe it’s adressed in the updatepdf…

#14

Yes, but how do you do that?

I have a sound edited on my AK… I want to save it for later use.

The manual gives the same conceptual overview as you just did but I still have no idea how to just do the basic task of saving a sound to the +drive.

Thx for your efforts…[/quote]
This is one way to save a tweaked sound for later use. Correct me if I explain it in a wrong way:
1.I open the Sound screen (Function + Sound on the AK) by choosing “Sound Manager” and then pushing the “Yes”-button.
2. First I need to choose the place to store this sound (I guess this is on the +Drive). I can choose Bank C, D etc. by using the Trigger buttons, and let us say that I want to store it in Bank C. When I scroll through the sounds already stored in Bank C, it seems that I have lost my sound, because if I touch the keyboard I will hear the sounds I am scrolling through. When I reach an empty slot in Bank C, however, I can hear my sound again. So, I just mark the first empty slot.
3. Then I need to push the right arrow key which opens a new menu. The first choice in that menu is “Save Trk Sound”, and this is exactly what I am looking for. So I pick that and push the “Yes” -button, then I can give the sound a new name (recommended!) and click “Yes” again.
I am still confused about this: When I use the Sound Manager to store a sound like I have described, is it really stored on the +Drive for general use, or is it only stored in the Sound Pool that I am working with (my Project)?

#15

Yes, but how do you do that?

I have a sound edited on my AK… I want to save it for later use.

The manual gives the same conceptual overview as you just did but I still have no idea how to just do the basic task of saving a sound to the +drive.

Thx for your efforts…[/quote]
This is one way to save a tweaked sound for later use. Correct me if I explain it in a wrong way:
1.I open the Sound screen (Function + Sound on the AK) by choosing “Sound Manager” and then pushing the “Yes”-button.
2. First I need to choose the place to store this sound (I guess this is on the +Drive). I can choose Bank C, D etc. by using the Trigger buttons, and let us say that I want to store it in Bank C. When I scroll through the sounds already stored in Bank C, it seems that I have lost my sound, because if I touch the keyboard I will hear the sounds I am scrolling through. When I reach an empty slot in Bank C, however, I can hear my sound again. So, I just mark the first empty slot.
3. Then I need to push the right arrow key which opens a new menu. The first choice in that menu is “Save Trk Sound”, and this is exactly what I am looking for. So I pick that and push the “Yes” -button, then I can give the sound a new name (recommended!) and click “Yes” again.
I am still confused about this: When I use the Sound Manager to store a sound like I have described, is it really stored on the +Drive for general use, or is it only stored in the Sound Pool that I am working with (my Project)?
[/quote]
Hi, as I wrote above the left arrow key opens a menu too, where you can choose to which source you want to save.

#16

I just discovered that the fastest way to save a sound you have tweaked on a track is to push the Yes-button and the Sound-button (on AK) or the D2-button (on A4) at the same time. The first empty slot on the +Drive is automatically selected, and you just need to confirm with the Yes-button.

#17

Ah cool, didn’t know that one.
So many button combinations to learn… :wink:

#18

thank u sirr!

#19

That helped a lot. Thanks for the hint!

#20

I think, as strange as it seems first, the concept behind those kits is quite powerful.

Example: Maybe you know that on the korg electribe EMX1 you could have a pattern length of 128 steps. And when you have worked with that, you don´t want to miss it ever again. So to achieve this on the Analog Rytm or Keys I do this:

On a clear project

  1. Make a Pattern A1.
    2 Save kit (yes, it still has initialised sounds, but let´s not worry yet) into slot A1 and call it Kit A1
  2. Make Pattern A2. Automatically this new Pattern has Kit A1 assigned to it.
  3. Now in Chain-Mode make a chain containing pattern A1 and A2

Because those two patterns use the same kits they also use the same sounds. So if you now load a sound it is used in both patterns. And because you are in chain mode, those two patterns now behave as one big 128step pattern. LiveRecording works fine. And step recording of course also works but remember to look on the display where you are before setting your steps as while playing the sequencer changes the patterns on the fly without you noticing.

If you want to create another 128step Pattern:

  1. Make a Pattern A3.
  2. Save kit onto Slot A3 and call it Kit A3. (Notice, the created pattern A3 automatically got Kit A1 assigned to it. This you will now save -basically copy- to Slot A3 and you will call it Kit A3)
  3. Make Pattern A4.
  4. While Pattern A4 is active look on the display to make sure Kit A3 is used. If not, load that kit and save the pattern again.

“Why create the new kit into slot a3?”
You can see where the kits belong (kit A1 belonging to pattern A1 AND A2 because Kit-slot 2 is empty)
And if you decide later that Pattern A2 needs a variation of the sounds used in Pattern A1, despite you are using it as a big 128step Pattern, you can still simply create a copy of kit A1 and save that to slot A2, just where it belongs. :slight_smile:

You have to get used to this process of first saving your stuff at a specific location and then start tweaking and recording, but later in the process it is much easier because everything sits already in place.

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