Toraiz Squid multitrack sequencer

The Lounge Other Gear
#204

SWING VALUES
Elektron vs Squid

Elektron’s straight beat is called 50%
Squid’s is called 0%

I started to work on a lookup table so that if you’re using both machines at the same time, you can make sure that your swing values are the same.

My head started to hurt doing this math (I’m an art guy, not a math guy) so I gave up but…
Coincidentally, 62% in Elektron swing is also 62% in Squid swing and that’s the only place where they intersect.

So for now, my songs that use both devices either have no swing…or 62%…like this one…

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#205

Hrmmmmm.

I’ve got an Octa and Keystep, alongside Multiclock and Pamela’s New Workout for sync.

I’d love to add or upgrade.

Cirklon will be an eventual choice/master…

Until they ramp up to producing v2s, I’m tempted to pick up the Squid OR upgrade to a Keystep Pro.

Any opinions on this here internet?

#206

squid is pretty good, it can do parameter locks great design easy to use with tons of features I’m sure you probably have seen, lots of fun
the main complaint I see about it is it can’t make 6 hour live sets etc…
it is very capable of making a full track with pattern sets but probably better 1 track per project… I mainly am using it to create patterns then they can be drag into the daw from the software… It can do a lot more than elektron sequencers but it is only a sequencer…

I want to get a cirklon also eventually aswell
more sequencers the better :joy:

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#207

Ach, yes! This seems to be what i’m finding :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you for your perspective. The good thing about add’l sequencers is that they let me unlock my existing hardware better.

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#208

For song building and live playing there is Cirklon. So at home construct with Squid and peaufine with Cirklon, on stage play with Cirklon, pretty no limit.

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#209

4 posts were merged into an existing topic: Cirklon V2

#210

Hello Squid players. I have a question. I often play with odd number of steps. And I noticed that my Squid does’nt respect polimetric signature.
Please can you confirm :

  1. I create a pattern with 9 steps. Put a trig on 1, 5, 9 and 12.
  2. Duplicate the pattern
  3. Now I press play
  4. If I change between the patterns, the number of step isn’t respected. It happen as if on Elektron device I had created the same pattern and played it with a master lenght of 64 steps.
    If I use fixed lenght it does’nt change.

Did I miss something or the Squid sequencer can’t play polymetry correctly ? :thinking:
Didn’t find documented things on the net.
Thanks for help.

#211

I Think it always just changes on the end of 1 bar…
there doesn’t seem to be other options to change that…

#212

I was afraid of that. That explain the problem I already encounter with the Time Warp. This sequencer is not really polymeter or polyrythm.
It can do these only if you don’t change patterns or if you change them at the right account of bars so your “polything” meet the 4/4 signature. Hard to do in live, and no pattern programming possible in Squid.
It would have been so beautifull. That’s why I will keep my Pyramid and record the “polythings” from Squid into Pyramid, to be able to play them the right way (I mean out of 4/4).
That confirm what I wrote few posts above : out of 4/4 it’s a sketch book.
But i’ll keep it cause it’s so fun to play with.

1 Like
#213

I always have my patterns change on 64/128/256/512 on elektron gear anyhow…
I’m not an expert but I’m pretty sure it’s still polyrhythm using 3/4 time and 1.5 time etc and have it play for the same amount of time as a different time like 4/4
And polymeters are when it gets cut off and restarts so it does that too…

I think you are talking about time signatures which it will only do 4/4 because of how it changes patterns and to be honest I’ve never wrote anything in a different time signature and nearly all music you hear is in 4/4

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#214

I’m not expert too, far from it.
I think that your statement is right, maybe I would afford some details.

The polyrythm in my mind, find it’s essence in the playing of multi-musical phrases (let’s call them pattern) with differents time signature. So you can have 3/4 playing with 4/4 or 7/4 or whatever you want, mainly with the idea of not being all stoped and restarted on a specific amount of times (amount of bars for example) ie 4 bars max in Squid (except speed control, and Divide or Count tricks that can make the 4 bars longers).
That’s why you can find an important amount of steps for the Master lengh on our Elektron (until 1024) and mainly “INF”, which specificaly permit very odd “mélange” of time signature. That mean the moment when all tracks reach the 1 step of their pattern at the same time can be very far from 64 or even 512 step (it’s just a multiplication to find the number of bars when the “restart” of the patterns occurs).

I will add that it is the ability of Pyramid to play polyrhythm/meter (Cirklon too). That’s its main commercial ability (“known for that” would have said Death Grips :crazy_face:).
The thing that permit this comparing between the the two sequencers is the price. Quite the same. But their abilities are not the same.

Thoses reasons gave me the idea that Squid isn’t really a polymeters or polyrythm sequencer (wich Pyramid is) but it had some interesting abilities in that domain.

But, it’s just my opinion. This is certainly not Squid bashing, I really love it, but I love it for what it is. I am very happy to use it for creation of patterns and their organisation, because it is unbeatable for that.
Making draft copy is very important for lot of action.
This last affirmation doesn’t retrive the real ability/power of Squid : playing live. It’s a real midi instrument for improvisation (better than Pyramid on this point). I keep it also for that. My last jams were made by Squid, in a very little time and I had lot of fun during construction time.
As fun to play as Elektron sequencers (more immediat less deep). So few programming time for full time of pleasure with music it’s unbeatable.
I hope our discussion will permit people like me to know that it’s not a real “polything sequencer”. That’s all the benefit of Elektronauts.

#215

I know you arent bashing the squid and im not trying to defend it just trying to understand.

im pretty sure it does do polyrhythm and polymeters, its exactly like having an elektron sequencer set to inf when not using fixed length which is the same as master length on elektron gear…

only differences is master length can only set to anything up to 16 beats not as long as elektron…
and it doesnt affect when changing patterns as its only possible in 4/4…

i wouldnt say its not a polything sequencer, it does do poly rhythmic stuff but not odd time signatures

#216

If you don’t change patterns, yes it behave like Elektron. But if you change patterns then I find that there is no more comprehension of polyrythm/meter by Squid.
Try the following test on Elektron and on Squid you’ll ear the problem :

  1. Create first pattern with 12 steps (I wrote 9 in the above post but it was wrong).
  2. Put active steps 1, 5, 9 and 12.
  3. Duplicate this pattern (on Squid same track first and second pattern for example- on Elektron same track pattern a1/a2 for example)
  4. Press play
  5. Change pattern : on Elektron no problem (Pyramid also), it follow the rythm (witch is the same between the 2 patterns). On Squid the sequencer behave as if I had master lenght of 16 (it count 4 step between the to patterns).

So if it behave like this on similar 3/4 signature, it will be the same, or worst, between differents time signature.
So it seems to me that the Squid is closed in a kind of 4/4 time signature and at least 16 steps master lengh.
I deduce that yes, you’re right, Squid can achieved some (limited) kind of “polythings”, within the sequencer abilities of at least 16 steps clock/steps.
The others sequencers I use does’nt meet these limitations.
Or maybe I didn’t understand what is polyrhythm/meter, so if you can enlight my misunderstanding…

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#217

Im not saying you are wrong and can be a confusing subject…
i know what you are saying about changing patterns…
but im still pretty sure the way it is doing polyrhythm’s and polymeters is proper and correct…
the problem you are talking about is time signatures…
to me its a different thing all together…

it doesnt really matter anyhow i know what you mean

#218

Yes, that’s clear.

If you permit a last entry :
When using speed x0.25, x0.5 or x2 (at pattern level), I think it does’nt makes “polythings”. It just provide division and multiple for speed at wich notes are playing (except if you change the number of steps with odd number, and then we meet the limitation i’m talking of if changing pattern for introducing variation in the pattern).
The only ×1.5 introduce a “polything” in the sequencer if playing with x1, x2, x0.5 or 0.25 on another track.
I saw a video about Squid polyrythm abilities by Rishabh Rajan. But if he demonstrate the possibility to achieve polyrhythm “effects” as he said, and he never change the patterns, because polyrhythm won’t last anymore.

And I will permit to say that polyrhythm is mainly the cohabitation of differents time signatures within a same sequence/song, at the same time. Things that Squid can imitate but not produce.

Now, as you said that is not important, except for my musical practice. That why, you are right, we can, stop this discussion about polythings, because that won’t change anything in the world.

#219

Anybody playing with 2 squids, mixing from 1 improvised pattern set to another?

#220

I’m using the squid as my main midi keyboard to feed the the elektron sequencers at the moment it’s working great so far!

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image3264×2448 1.28 MB

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#221

@ Monothomm : Apart having more patterns memory, what would be the interest ? Are you looking for specific aim ?
By “mixing” you mean the midi OUT of first Squid into the midi IN of second Squid and differents complexe behaviour on each sequencer ?
Hum… why not. May be fun. Multiplication of time modulation would be interesting.
But is there some body that would buy two Squid ? Would like to know.
I have not yet try to link midi OUT to midi IN. Could be interesting to. Don’t know if Squid wil survive to such circuit.

#222

I just have way to much gear and too little tracks to play with them all without having to dial in the right midi channel on the Squid. Besides that I like the idea of coming up with a good groove on one set of gear and step by step mix in a second set, building it up from scratch or some pre-programmed patterns.

Studio setup would be like this:

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Live setup would be the mixer, the 2 Squids and Ableton or 1 or 2 analog units.

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#223

@Monothomm : since the price of the Squid is near the Squarp one, I would suggest you to take a Pyramid than a second Squid.
First because I find having two identical gear is a choice that need a real good and well thought reason (like having 2 OT).
Secondly, because it will be more efficient and will offer you maximised possibilities.