That’s interesting. How do you do that?
Bought a squid recently. I am loving its sequencing capabilities. The interface is really great.
Being able to tweak every sequence with many live controls, experiment with groove bends, speed modulation ect… and then use time warp to print it. A joy to use.
It really bring something new to the table, and completely break the rigidity of classic step sequencers imho.
I am really frustrated by the lack of midi instrument definition though. The only way with it is to have your midi implementation charts with you every time you create a new project which is #&@…as A result I don’t even use cc control because it is such a pain in the butt to redefine it every time.
You even cannot define a project template for your hardware, because you are limited to 16 tracks and copy/paste of tracks is not possible…
Yeah i feel your pain, the copy paste option is something I would love.
Did anyone who owns both Squid and Pyramid try to record a Squid performance into Pyramid using multitrack record in Pyramid - if so how is it?
I never used a Squid, it seems more performance based, I see Pyramid as more of a song builder with some ok performance features like live launching of sequences and playing with mutes and midi fx, I love it for what it does very well, but Squid keeps popping up on my radar for some of its features - there seems to be little overlap?
What say those that have both?
I’ve had a Squid for a while and my Pyramid just arrived 2 days ago. I’m familiarising myself to the Pyramid. Once comfortable (soon I hope) the first thing I had planned to do was to record live from the Squid (using its fantastic live jam features) into the pyramid.
My challenge is routing. I have most of my setup connected to an imidi 4+ so I need to have a think about loops / clocks etc.
I will report back.
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That !
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That and not only !
The problem with it is its lack of song building capabilities : that mean, it’s only build to create patterns on the fly, modify them and that’s all. Much fun, but not to build songs.
Since I have it, it’s my first to go, it is so evident and immediat satisfaction.
The problem : very few chance it will be more developped, because it’s so perfect to accomplish its task (construct for a dj world by a dj factory !). Such a shame… but I love it.
I have a lot of sequencers, but this paradigme is efficient (for its mission)
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For the moment, the Pyramid had not record the Squid cause I really have pleasure to only jam with the last and not took time to midi record my jam.
But the Squid is effectively connected to the Pyramid in view to have a great sequencer combo. That’s seems to be a logical chain. Gonna test the multi track recording and manage to organise patterns in the Pyramid.
So toonight I will makes some tests of compatibility and give you my though very soon.
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I jam on the squid, record every midi tracks in midi clip in Ableton and arrange, create a song with.
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Ok, I made few records and I noticed that the various recordings in Pyramid are not really precise/perfectly exact.
I don’t know where the problem comes from (is there inacuracy from squid sending midi or Pyramid receive it or recording in Pyramid from external device/clock). For the moment I just know that there are little differences between the lenght of several notes recorded in Pyramid, same with velocity and offset. The differences are not always the same from one record to another, without changing the initial tracks or the connexions.
For the lenght it can vary from a quarter step (longer) to 2 steps (on rythmics that does’nt change the sound). The variation can be of one step for notes very long (16 steps) and often not for shorter ones.
For the velocity, it can vary of 1 or 2 points. For the offset it can raise till 8%.
All these numbers are collected from the screen of Step Mode on the Pyramid.
So that’s not the result of a scientific protocole, just the observation on about 15 records made in the same conditions. Each time the step, parameters and value concerned are not the same.
Maybe I could change the midi cable. Maybe I could try the Pyramid being master and Squid slave (the Squid where master this time), or anything else, but another day.
The conclusion of tonight records : multitrack is quite ok but not really accurate. The pattern used tonight was simple, so the inaccuracy was not audible. what could happen if a more complexe was used ?
Another thing is annoying. When playing the Squid alone and construct polyrythm, the Time Warp function does’nt follow the polyrythm. It result in non accurate patterns when listening to it. I would like others try this to confirm, cause if it’s true, it is a major bug that makes the Time Warp unusable in polyrythm. Thanks for other users input about that.
Tomorrow I will go to look for informations on the site, maybe it’s is well known ?
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Thanks @elenacortes for trying out and the details you noticed, I hope you are able to get more consistent results with Pyramid as master. I’d be interested in the results if you do try it.
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Actually there is a survey by pioneer, indicating « maybe » that they are willing to push it a bit further.
https://faq.pioneerdj.com/product.php?lang=en&p=TORAIZ-SQUID&t=435
It is asked what feature you like most and least.
Choices appear in a predefined list, but midi learn, instrument definition and all that kind of good stuff is not even on the list!
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Yes agreed it is very limited in that point of view.
The chance for me is that although I like to have hardware to find ideas, jam and perform, i always tend to prefer the computer for recording and arranging a full song, so it is fine for me.
I could imagine myself trying to bring a more finished version of my tracks back in the squid (stems or stuff like that), and try to perform it with djing or remixing in mind.
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This morning I tryed to identify the little problems with Squid as master and
For the previous test I use 4 mono tracks and 2 poly. I keep same set up but try to send 16 tracks from Squid on the first midi out port to Pyramid and see if large quantity of data degrades situation. In fact no. That’s a good news.
Still the same little differences on lenght, offset and velocity. No more, no less differences with more data sended. Futhermore, noticed a constant in the lenght modification. If on the Squid the lenght of a trig contain decimals (on Squid You can have 0.250/0.500/0.750 to add to the number of step ie you can make a note last for 3.250 steps) the Pyramid record always an entire number of steps, always the uper number of steps (ie 3.750 becomes 4 steps, 5,250 become 6).
So :
- The Pyramid does’nt exactly record the step parameters that are programmed on Squid (master)
- The velocity is the more stable transmission. Few times it’s one point of difference.
- The offset, that has little difference too, must warm me on what I must check : how does the swing or real offset put on Squid are recorded in Pyramid (I will test that soon).
- The step duration does’nt concern the rythm practice, except if the gate time is important (depending on utilised gear and the type of trig).
- The step time is that important concerning the notes ? The variations is about one step max. There it depend on the type of music, on the type of sound utilised and the tempo. In most cases it’s note really consequent.
So for the moment those problems does’nt bother me too much. Not as much as the time warp that does not take polyrythm in charge.
Toonight I try with Pyramid master.
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Yes, this is the right way to really improove your songs. I think it’s more intuitive and easy to play with Squid and try differents pattern configurations than ITB.
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I just finish test with Pyramid master and Squid slave and there are no changes. The steps durations are always round up if contain decimals, very few velocity problems and still offsets that can vary from 0% to 8%, I don’t really find/look for an explication.
I don’t know anything in midi language or midi ingeneering (just plug, chain and anda la machina).
I would suppose that those offsets are due to a kind of latence in the midi chain between Pyramid that gives the clock start/stop, the Squid that start playing and send midi to Pyramid wich records the incoming midi.
All in all, the recording off the 16 chanels from Squid into Pyramid function pretty well. No notes loosed, few % offset in final record that are not very audible and eventualy can give an under groove non predictable (like human would do) on a many midi bars stem (384 bars are possible in Pyramid). If the offset is recorded in a 4 bars pattern and are audible, and a problem, just have to edit.
So to answer the first question, I find that Pyramid can multitrack record patterns from Squid in pretty good conditions with satisfying results, not perfect but ok. I’m not a clock extremist in electronic music.
So having the two is a kind overlap ?
I’m tempted to say no. Why ?
Cause i’m a sequencers addict 
. Because I love to chain them and use them like instruments 
If you look to the ability of the two on paper, it seems to be overlap. Pyramid can quite do all the Squid can do (except one or two things like Time Warp, speed modulation, and few little things that Pyramid would be hable to produce with work around).
BUT ! when I met Pyramid i’ve been impressed by it’s capacity of creation from scratch in few minutes. To reach that I had to learn the Pyramid’s menu and original UI. Today when I play with it I see all what it can do. BUT ! The UI is not always clear/efficient or easy. I say that cause I know it well. My memory has no problem and i’m trained to it.
When you use Squid, there is an immediacy. A kind of evidence in the UI. That makes me more efficient when I come to create patterns variation, or testing chords.
The implementation of chords is less deep but so much efficient. You can easily modify them test many solutions. It’s easiest to create a bunch of patterns than in Pyramid.
This little sequencer does few things but well. That’s why I said previously that it won’t mute a lot cause it’s adapted to it’s task. I would like that it get deeper, but it will certainly be less natural and simple to play.
So overlap ? Yes if you find that Pyramid is truly adapted to its task. But as I love and use Pyramid, I can’t help thinking that Squid his more adapted to its task than Pyramid to its own.
The UI is the force of Squid. Simple, efficient and can be deep enough.
Pyramid has it’s own ability, the main are the polyrythm/polymter/midi fx/midi recorder, it’s a cool and deep enough sequencer.
I found my Squid 2nd hand (mint) for 400euros shipping included, it’s worth… imho. Lot of fun now, as soon as you plug it. I find it efficient too in experimental music 
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Thanks again for the details @elenacortes - one question - does Squid allow a sequence of let’s say 44 steps to be 4 pages of 11, or is it same as most other sequencers i.e 2 pages of 16 then 1 page of 12?
Have you checked with another sequencer or daw?
Have you checked with a midi monitor?
Could any of the Squids modulation (There’s velocity and other modulation, right? I’m not sure if there is also note length modulation, though) cause these problems?
Maybe a knob is off or it’s a software problem, so modulation is actually happening although it seems the controls are set to off/zero.
I remember this question about Pyramid, and I share your point of view.
The good new is yes. 4 pages maximum, but you can put as active step you want per page !
So you can have 11 step on the first page, then 11 on the second. …and so on till the fourth. That’s so intuitive to have a bar per page even if odd number of step (max 16 steps per page).
So for polyrythm it’s perfect. Except that Time Warp is unable to rule this 
No other elektronauts good try this and tell me i’m wrong ?
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Not for the moment. As I wrote, that’s not scientific protocole. I did my best with Pyramid because that was the original question, and I was really concern by Pyramid cause I use it as midi recorder.
I don’t have DAW 