Toraiz is calling

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Right off the bat I will say that I love the OT, certainly an unsurpassed mangler of audio, and so customisable and configurable that it is almost like a modular without all the cables.

Lately though I have been checking out the Pioneer Toraiz with its flexible live set friendly sample assignments, and thinking the Octatrack could have easily saved me the GAS if only the pattern/kit system was like every other Elektron machine - that is to say each pattern can have its own kit, rather than the slot/part architechture, sure (like always) there are workarounds by way of using sample locks, but it is not really the same.

Then I thought, well why is it like that? Sample locks prove that it is not a hardware limitation, and it is nowhere near as user friendly as having a pattern with its own kit, no need to extend the number of samples because slices and the mangling power even on 1 shots can give plenty of mileage from 128 samples.

Anyone else agree/disagree?

Anyone from Elektron care to chime in?

6 Likes
Octatrack vs Analog Rytm vs Toraiz for stem performance
#2

I don’t join the usual feature request threads but damn would I love kits for the OT. The beast becomes cthulhu

4 Likes
#3

For me, the first thing I consider for “live set friendly” gear is the physical size. My live sets are in other cities and countries that require airplanes to travel to.
Because of this, physical specs are the first things I look at. Size is a critical feature.

Elektron has nailed it with their boxes. I can carry 4 onto a plane (3 in a hard case, 1 in a small bag).

The Toraiz, at 10.2" x 17.2" ain’t live set friendly enough for me.
I would have to check it in as under-carriage luggage, and then hope that it A) doesn’t get lost, B) some under-paid luggage handler having a bad day treats it’s container okay, or worse off, C) the TSA inspector won’t bang it all up like they did a shock mounted SKB rack mount I traveled with from Frankfurt to Chicago.
The thing about traveling with gear in the bottom of the plane is it’s insured value is connected to it’s weight, not it’s actual $ value. So that’s a gamble I don’t take when a promoter is expecting me to show up, plug in, and perform.
I could go on and on, as you can imagine.

I can see the appeal of the Toraiz, especially as an Octatrack replacement.
But they missed the mark, when it came to industrial design, by failing to really understand the segment of the music industry they are hoping will buy it; traveling electronic musicians with much more gear than just their sampler.

4 Likes
#4

I love the OT and it’s the center of my studio. I’ve set it up to be a performance mixer and loop player. I have 256 loops always ready to launch and blend with my other boxs (AR and MnM) That being said I wish the OT could be set up kit per pattern mode. That would completely open up chromatic sample play for me in a more intuitive and convenient way.

2 Likes
#5

The thing about the Toraiz, not to overlook though, is the potential for these to be readily available wherever you go (kind of like CDJs). You wouldn’t even need to bring yours, only the flash drive with your personalized set. I happily traded my RYTM for a Toraiz (quite content with my Drumatix), and am amped to pick it up tomorrow.

2 Likes
#6

Maybe, seems like a pretty distant fantasy though. CDJs are ubiquitous because venue are getting a bunch of DJs through each week who need the exact same gear. This is different because:

  1. You need a Toraiz at home to set up your live set, and it’s too expensive for most. With DJing you can cut your teeth on cheap decks or even a computer and still be ready to play on whatever the venue provides.
  2. Most venues book way fewer livesets than they do DJs.
  3. Out of that already slim proportion of livesets, most bring their own stuff and only a fraction will be Toraiz users.
  4. Conclusion: it won’t be worth it any venue to pick one of these up at $1600 or whatever this costs.
3 Likes
#7

Lots of speculation in this old Elektron-Users topic:
http://www.elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&id=212487&catid=9&limit=10&limitstart=110
which gives a variety of very polite and thoughtful opinions, although only the first post on page 12 provides secondhand commentary from Elektron.

That topic is also of historical interest because it appears to be the stimulus for @Merlin’s document.

4 Likes
#8

I was thinking rent. You can easily rent any Pioneer gear from a number of gear rental places. Most venues rent gear as needed.

1 Like
#9

I have probably whinged about this on the old forum too, possibly in the thread you linked to :slight_smile: Ha, well I guess it will never change anyway, the Toraiz put the thought in my head again, maybe I just need to approach it differently or maybe I should just get the Toraiz, can’t justify both though and the OT currently smokes the Toraiz in many ways although not all. Damn!

1 Like
#10

Yeah it is too big really and a bit ugly/consumer looking, although the screen looks real nice, I’ll probably keep my eye on how the OS develops and make a decision down the road.

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#11

Oh, forgot about renting. If loading a set from USB is really simple then this could work, cool!

1 Like
#12

I think that the big difference is the Scenes. The early Elektron publicity material emphasized Scenes and how flexible and dynamic the OT would be with the ability to crossfade between the near-equivalent of “kits”.

My guess is that they thought that 16 banks x 4 parts x 16 scenes would be more flexible than 64 kits on the MD.

Maybe that was just too much of a stretch for people used to traditional sampler configurations (MPC etc). It’s telling that they went back to kits for the Analog instruments.

Personally, for all its faults, the OT is one of the few pieces of gear that I will never part with. :elot: :quirky:

7 Likes
#13

I parted with the OT after Push 2 came out, and I instantly regretted it, and bought another one four/five months later. There’s something really wonderful about that machine where, working with the machine, I feel really connected to the sound as I’m changing it.

I know I say this every time someone brings up the Octatrack, and I know I will keep saying this every time someone brings up the Octatrack. It’s just a really rewarding machine.

9 Likes
#14

so proper

#15

Yep … the kit/pattern concept is something I would like to have on the OT too. Parts seem to be not so different, but it’s much easier with AK or AR to generate variations or completely different kits that can be stored, used, and changed on the fly.

As Pioneer showed up with the Toraiz, I hoped it to be a next generation MPC-like instrument … but not as an alternative for an OT.

#16

Yeah OT kits would be sweet :slight_smile:
That Toraiz is SO under-cooked elsewhere right now tho. Ridiculously basic feature set as it stands. So much missing. Pioneer should have waited til they had a more final OS. Its weird tho, they had videos at trade shows where there were way more fx etc. But there’s an ‘update Road map’ where it looks like they plan to leak the FX out over the next 6-12 months. Almost like they want customers to be stoked on their updates/maintain publicity etc by slowly rolling out ‘the basics’…I don’t think there’s even an insert reverb in fx yet?! The basics should be there already and future updates should be the ‘wow, that’s even better’ Or ‘nice, they fixed it’ stuff…

1 Like
#17

Agreed that the Toraiz looks a little undercooked at present, not clear on the structure of the fx yet either is it 4 fx per track, or per scene?

Also for some reason it reminds me of this :smiley:

http://www.robynsonlineworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/radio-shack-arcade.jpg

1 Like
#18

Ah man, I remember that thing!

#19

I was considering the Toraiz, but after a closer look at the features there’s no way I’ll part with my OT:

  • The OT does different track lengths which the Pioneer doesn’t. That’s probably uninteresting for most people who do dancy kind of music but I almost exclusively use the OT for ambient/polyrythmic stuff so the Toraiz won’t do.
  • The flexibility of the OTs scene/fader system is incredible. I understand the Toraiz also has some kind of macro controls but it’s not as powerful as the fader.
  • MIDI sequencing. I know it is supposed to come to the Toraiz too but when and in what form is still open.
  • I’ve read that the Toraiz has a sample size limit of 32 seconds. So it won’t do for longer samples or backing tracks. I guess they artificially implemented that limitation so the Toraiz won’t interfere with their dedicted DJ gear.
  • As already mentioned, the OT is way smaller and I love that form factor.
3 Likes
#20

What? Toraiz has a max sample size of 32 seconds?

I thought they’d give us the option of playing DJ sets with it. Guess not.

IMO the :elot: is way more flexible, the only thing toraiz has is lots of outputs and CDJ sync (the analog filter is not per voice so IMO doesn’t add much)

2 Likes