Theorie : Modes / Scales

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Hello Elektronauts Musicians

I’m coming to you because I’m trying to progress and understand some things a little more than I am now.

It’s about modes and scales and this page and explication:

Remember how we praised the modes for their ability to communicate nuanced emotion? The Dorian mode is a fantastic example of this – it’s not all doom-and-gloom simply because it’s minor. The major sixth interval lends this mode a “brightness” that separates it from sounding the same as a natural minor scale – in fact, if we compare D Dorian to a D natural minor scale, we’ll see that the only difference is that raised sixth scale degree in the Dorian mode:

What I don’t understand is that for me, following this image
and this

2127F4D1-7742-423F-8B4A-5CD9F73FA2B4
2127F4D1-7742-423F-8B4A-5CD9F73FA2B41344×948 194 KB

D Dorian is for me a chord of three notes.

But on the audio example of the website and the sentence I copied here it seems that D Dorien can be a scale of 7 notes…

What I am doing wrong ?

Could you help me to pass thru this problem of perception ?

I hope so…

Thank you a lot…

1 Like
#2

Modes are not chords. A mode is a subset of the 12 chromatic tones, for a composition, or a phrase. A chord is the simultaneous striking of more than two notes at a time.

Do you have a keyboard? It might be better to focus on playing the scales and listening rather than focusing on charts.

But it might also help if you could tell us more about what your goals are, and what you are doing now.

4 Likes
#3

Re : Hi dude ! I understood finally, for sure it is better to use with a keyboard.

So yes modes aren’t chord but : because it is about the first played note… We always use the first chords/arpeges of the mode to use the modes isn’t it ?

The order of notes is important so we wont play a D dorian starting with a C ? Or even with a GMaj ?

It is this order thing I misunderstood…
Is this possible to play a CMaj chord in D Dorian mode ?

#4

The order of the notes in a mode is freely chosen by the composer, but that said, melodies often begin on the root and end that way. What’s more important is paying attention to the degree of “stress” or “rest” in the tones you play.

As far as CMaj, yes! The chord on the 7th degree of D Dorian in CMaj, and it’s one of the most distinct parts of the flavor of Dorian to emphasize the CMaj.

3 Likes
#5

But so, using the boards I posted to write progression per column, for example using D Dorian arp in CMaj, then Using an other of the column in an other scale and transposing sequences is not a good method to proceed and compose ? :frowning:
Because I have a setup at this moment which is :frowning:
I have in my octatrack many midi tracks with different Scales pre writted and pre transposed, then I just put the same notes/chords/arps on each and switch to writte instant progression always in scale and same modes.

#6

some videos that could help you

it helped me to build that chart in the blue color on your initial post

5 Likes
#7

Thank you I will pay carefully attention :mag_right:

#8

It may help to learn the difference between:

  • Key (meaning, what is the scales foundation, root or tonic)
  • Scale (how are the consecutive steps in the scale built from the root)
  • Mode (used to refer to any of the seven diatonic scales)

Not entirely sure about what the question is, but saying that modes aren’t chords is somewhat misleading… Keys, modes and chords are interrelated concepts.

For example “D Dorian” tells us that the key/chord tonic is D, and that the scale is dorian. By understanding the relationship between key, scale and chords we can therefore deduce tons of information about what chords fit within a certain scale, what scale goes with a certain chord, how the foundations for chord progressions can be worked out and so on.

6 Likes
#9

Okay thank you very much. :sweat_smile:

#10

The Music Modes chart is for finding which notes are used for a certain mode starting on a certain key, it doesn’t relate to chord progressions.

An easy way to find the chords in a mode is to play them as root position triads, so for D Dorian, you’d play these chords in sequence, using only white keys:

DFA | EGB | FAC | GBD | ACE | BDF | CEG and back to DFA an octave up. This will give you the sound of each basic chord. To make a chord progression, simply play any of these chords in a different order. Not all sequences of chords will sound equally good, but none will clash either. Then you can make a melody on top of those chords by simply playing only the notes within the mode. Again, it might not sound great but it won’t clash.

When the chords and melody use only the notes from the mode the song is in, it’s called Diatonic. If we swap any white keys for black keys in the case of D Dorian, it would make the scale Chromatic - because it uses a tone outside that mode. Most pop music is Diatonic, whereas Jazz is usually highly Chromatic.

2 Likes
#11

“D Dorian” is not a chord, that was the confusion I wanted to address. But “Keys, modes and chords are interrelated concepts” is the crucial idea here, and they are all derived ultimately from the Harmonic Series.

3 Likes
#13

In an other way is it possible to say that in the CM Key :
a sequence of C ionian will become a sequence in D dorian if I transpose +2
or a G Mixolydian if I add +7semitones

#14

So here we have
Minor Minor Major Major Minor Diminished Major chords isn’t it ?
this is so cool
So I can take the board to know even in modes which chord correspond to which degree of the modes am I right ?

#15

Yes, and each mode has a different pattern of majors and minors that give it it’s basic feel.

“In an other way is it possible to say that in the CM Key :
a sequence of C ionian will become a sequence in D dorian if I transpose +2
or a G Mixolydian if I add +7semitones”

No, because the pattern of majors and minors is different between modes. If you did a straight whole tone transposition of C Ionian you get D Ionian. You have to include the black keys when transposing.

1 Like
#16

(…)
If I choose to play In the Root note Of CMAJ = D Dorian in the and to play G Mixolydian it will always play the white keys because of the root note :confused:
So if I can change the mode without adding black notes … :confused:
Can you maybe tell me as Dorian, what are the chord constituing G Mixolydian to compare ?
Thank

#17

You are correct for G myxolydian, the second question is too complicated, I’ll let you figure it out :wink:

#18

But is it possible to play in G Myxolidyan mode without be in the CMAJ root key :confused: ?

:thinking:

Or do I understand right that G myxolidian : CMAJ will always depend from CMAJ root, as for example E phrygian mode will always be in CMAJ root key/tonality ?

#19

A scale is just a collection of notes. A mode in modern western music is also a collection of notes, except some notes carry greater weight than others.

D Dorian = D E F G A B C

G Mixolydian = G A B C D E F

Notice something? They’re exactly the same collection of notes! You can also see why this can be confusing.

The other way people learn modes is to see each mode as the major scale with altered degrees. Identifying notes are in bold

Major Scale = R 2 3 4 5 6 7
Dorian = R 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Mixolydian = R 2 3 4 5 6 b7

You need to learn modes the 2nd way before you can really start to “get” them.

2 Likes
#20

Yes personally I see this like that ! But I have to learn the degrees etc to understand possible movement and etc !
Allright I’m on the good way ! Thank you a lot !

#21

By “C Major tonality” you mean functional harmony in the key of C?

Functional Harmony does not take modes into account, so don’t worry about E Phrygian mode there.

Modal harmony as used in jazz is different from functional harmony. Here’s an article using D Dorian as an example
http://www.ars-nova.com/Theory%20Q&A/Q144.html