THE Crossfader Transition Thread(Tips,tricks,etc.)

[virtual_flannel]

Hey there Octagang!
I think the Crossfader Transition Trick is the greatest thing about the Octa.
Whether using external equipment or changing banks internally in the Octa, this trick really makes live performance of electronic music interesting.

I have found using this trick, there to be many variables!
Sometimes your looped audio starts getting quieter or louder.
Different machines and material may react differently when using this trick.
Share your own thoughts here are a couple of my own to get started.

One thing that bugs me is when using a compressor on the master and your transition track is sampling from track 8(master track) I believe the compressor makes the loop keep getting louder as it RE-compressses itself each pass. A solution is to use 1-shot trigs maybe, but I prefer the constantly recording method. Need to experiment to see if there is a way to compress the master and still do the track.

Also, this trick is awesome for working within the octa and changing songs as well. One problem though is…I don’t think you can copy banks and this makes it a bit painful to recreate the trick for each bank.

Really though this trick makes the Octa worth it alone in my opinion!

Chime in fam, any tips or tricks or love for the Transition Trick??

These two videos by Tarekith are the best for learning and explaining the trick that I have found.

[zeropoint]

I prefer Biologik’s " Logical" transition trick. No internal sampling and no track lost to do that sampling…although it’s good to keep one spare if you have sequenced out parts that need to be sampled into audio tracks…as this method only works with looped audio.

http://www.elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&id=218281&catid=9&limit=10&limitstart=0

If you want to stick with the crossfader transition and the compressor on your master is giving you problems, set source 3 to cue and cue the tracks you wish to sample.

[glaciertree]

I need to spend more time working in this area, but I thought Cenk’s Volca video illustrated something interesting. Instead of switching parts using the same pattern you could switch to a different pattern that uses the second part. That would make a smoothly synced change to the other part.

[nedavine]

I’ve never managed (or spent enough time) to get it to work. I really should spend some time with this though.

[deHaan]

I’ve went the 1-shot recording trig on the transition track, since I kept getting problems with volume changes. When you get used to it’s not such a big deal, except that you have to wait for the recorder to finish recording before doing the transition…

[credo]

I am trying to manage transition using the pickup machine. But it doesn’t seem to work the same way.

When setting the scenes (XLEV, XVOL, VOL) on pattern1:track7 it works to fade using the crossfader. But when setting the scenes on pattern2:track7 (another part) the same way, the crossfader have no impact on volume.

The point of this would be to override the level settings on pattern2 so I don’t get this volume jump.

I really like the pickups, but I need the transitions to work.
Any ideas?!

[sicijk]

Please describe your situation better…if you have changes in Volume settings (either Trk Lev - Vol) the Scenes override those values, but if you use XVOL or XLEV, so locking a MAX or MIN value…those Min/Max are directly related to the Volume settings you set.

To avoid volume jumps you should better program the interchangeable patterns setting levels consistently

[credo]

Thanks sicijk for fast reply!

Going through my settings on all four patterns (each with different part) to set them all exactly the same helped to partly solve the problem. But when playing live (tonight actually ) I adjust the levels to what is happening in the moment, then my settings could be way off.

I am a bit confused over all the different vol settings. I want the crossfader position to override both the Level and Vol on the track. Also when I change patterns.

I do ambient music, without actual beats, so there is no point in sync for me, otherwise the rec trig solution would be fine. I prefer pickups.

[sicijk]

also you should keep in mind that changing Parts changes also the SCENE A-B selection…i mean…if you’re playing with crossfader using SceneA-1 and ScenB-9 switching Part will bring the Scenes selected at the moment of the saving OR (if you did changes without reloading) to the Scene numbers you used last. And if you use the Scene assignements in a coherent way (always 1 and 9 for volume duties)…you can loose that coherence for the reason above.

Octatrack requires tons of Zen

[NSM]

when trying to set up biologik’s technique i’m always missing how he is able to use buttons 1-8 for launching and stopping tracks. i have it all set up exactly as in the video/text below. for me the only buttons that work for launching samples are buttons 9-16. what am i missing?

[NSM]

aah i figured it out… didn’t know that i need to have a trig at the start of each track for it to work…

[polite_society]

I generally record loops from external machines, so i just do track+record with the record parameters set to quantise rec start to length, and rec length to 64 (4 bars). Then i use that to take a ‘snapshot’ of the loop and fade over when i change. Then it’s a static recording, and won’t keep resampling. Plus it means you can plock it with various start points and remix it on the fly.

I think this video demonstrates it the best. Though from memory, i think he uses a one shot rec trig, which he re-enables when needed. Though he’s using external boxes here, the same would apply if you just set your rec trig to record track 8 or master.

Though if you want to maintain your workflow you could get it to record your que instead of master. Then it wouldn’t be constantly running through the compressor, but you do lose the flexibilty of using the que as an effects send or other router, but you do gain the ability to choose what to record in your buffer.

OT is all about the tradeoffs

[depuratumba]

sorry to bump this thread
but after exploring other methods for transitions (kaoss pad, etc.) I’m going for the One-shot recording trigger resampling from Track 8/ XVOL scenes method - since I’m now sequencing more external synths and I can get around using 6 audio tracks for samples (+ 1 track for resampling/transitions, +1 for master track).

I have no problem making it work, but I’m not sure what’s the best way to avoid the chance of it going wrong, here’s my scenario:

(first of all - I work with 1 “song” per bank, across multiple patterns with variations - I don’t use Parts, mainly because when performing live, sometimes I make adjustments based on the output on the PA - ie. volume adjustments, filters, etc. - and if I change to a pattern using another Part, my track adjustments would go back to their original state)

• I’m playing BANK 01, going thru patterns. on my last Pattern I have a One-Shot Recording Trigger resampling T8 as I mentioned.
• I go to my XVOL Scene, mute all tracks (except something I want to start playing when I change patterns)
• I change to BANK 02, start mixing the resampling tracks with the new track/bank
• Here’s where I’m having trouble figuring out how to continue. let’s say I change the FX (filter, delay), pitch, etc… if I want to use the same recording buffer for the last pattern of BANK 02, I have to make sure those alterations (fx, filter, delay) are reseted to their default values… either by clearing the pages (PAGE+CLEAR) or by reloading the Part (wich, as I mentioned, I don’t like much doing)…

Of course having to remind this in a live situation is kind of a headache that could lead to fuckups, so I’m wondering if there’s any workaround/suggestions for this?

[depuratumba]

update: since my last post, I ditched the whole internal resampling idea… it was too falible for my taste, so I’ve been working with a few different alternatives: first one I did was use a SoundBite micro I’ve had laying around, but contrary to my belief, it doesn’t recieve MIDI IN (I mean it does, but only to act as a MIDI THRU) so, although the BPM can get very accurate - and you can also disable BPM once it seems stable - it’s still a bit dangerous, since it can easily drift away, forcing me to cut transitions short or plain ruining it…

on the following gig, I used and iPhone with Loopy HD (+ Behringer UCA222 so I could get audio in). Pros: I can set it at an exact BPM and it will work (mostly I play on a fixed BPM the whole set). Cons: well, I have to carry around extra cables, the UCA222 (it’s small but anyway)…
for both gigs I used a dj mixer to go from one source to another (I asked for one and luckily the could get it for me, I don’t carry one around)…
Since that last gig, I’ve got an Analog Four, wich I’m still experimenting with - I’m specially not used to working with two sequencers… using just the Octatrack was a lot faster (also, I use multipliers way more than I thought)
I know I could easily sequence the A4 with the Octa… but I do loose some features from the A4 sequencer - plus, I can change patterns on the OT while keeping the A4 playing…
I’ve also got a bit used to more polyphony, sequencing different iPad synths… so I’m trying to work around it - maybe using one of the OT tracks for pads or synth lines that have the most polyphony…

So, I’m currently in something of a “set crisis”… on the first weeks with the A4, I had the already famous love/hate/dissapointment mix, wich even made me consider selling it… maybe, in part, because I got to used to the Shruthi-1 sound, wich allows me to create nice, deep, rounded bass much easier (in this regard I think it’s better, although I’ve already read all the tips and tricks to create good bass sounds… it just sounds different, and I have to get used to it). I’ve been trying around different ideas - some involving the iPad too, as I realized I could use it along my AKAI EIE interface, to compress / limit the OT output, and also to send the CUE out to better fx (reverb, delay)… but that might make my set way too big (I’m not a fan of big setups)…

another option I’m considering is OT +A4 + AH… all hardware

so, going back on topic: I recently watch a video from Tarekith from last year, playing with just OT (every time I see someone playing with just the OT, it makes me jelous I don’t think I could ever achieve that) and it made me interested in trying the transition trick, one more time… he uses it with a recording trig always running, wich I have to say makes it a lot easier… but since then I’ve also learned (or maybe re-learn) how to know if the track finished recording from looking at the small icon next to the track… so I’m hoping maybe this time it will be easier (I have to get used to reloading part though… I never use that live)

sorry for the long post, I kinda drifted from the topic quite a bit…

[Supercolor_T-120]

I’ve toyed with doing something vaguely similar with my old sp303 but the PCB where th knobs are has been cracked and repaired in maybe not the most durable way, so I really don’t want to use it for a setup I plan to play out with it. It would be a good match though, put it on the cue outs and bounce down long loops to ot, then trigger them from the OT - almost like being able to record to static machines. Plus you could use the 303’s effects as send effects for OT tracks at the same time.

[depuratumba]

sorry to bump this thread but I just thought of this, regarding the Master Track Compressor issue:

copied over from a new thread I created:

this might not be new, but I just thought of it and it seems like it gives good results:
I’m using the Crossfader Transition trick + Master Track (filter + comp)

as many of you noticed, when resampling from T8 the recording gets passed through the Compressor again, changing the dynamics of the loop… (I know - unless you use CUE as source… but that’s adding too much trouble to my workflow - I already have to remember to have T7 on, reload the part in case I’ve messed around with the loop/fx, etc.)

So, what I just tried is, on SCENE B (T1-6 > XVOL MIN | T7(resampling) > XVOL MAX ) also adding a parameter lock where I the Compressor MIX down to 0… that way it keeps the same volume/dynamics.

hope it helps!