an Easel clone should have a spring reverb already tho… unless theirs is DSP? I dunno the details on this one, I guess…
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So, you don’t judge others in the case that they are ignorant, which you assume. Which implies that those in the know would be condemned for their purchase.
Zero sum in the sense of black or white. Behringer is framed as being good or, as the vast majority of opinions it seems to me believe, bad. From the perspective of those who believe Behringer to be bad, my argument has been that it’s a zero-sum choice: if you purchase B, you are de facto bad (assuming knowledge of B’s full business practices) as well because your consumption supports their unethical production. It’s only zero sum if one accepts that B is bad.
I personally don’t believe B is “bad.” Certainly not worse than Norand, which legacied the mk1 Mono after one year, to this day releases buggy firmware, even worse for the mk2, and with an abandoned product. Yeah I bought it new.
The issue is more complex than a dichotomous framing that imposes a zero sum decision on a person. It requires a cost benefit analysis and understanding of various trade-offs involved, and a clear indication of where the actual harm lies.
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My man, the issue is that B’s business makes them “bad.” If someone buys B’s toys, how are they not implicitly also bad? They are literally transferring their wealth to an entity that does bad things, giving them the means to do more bad things.
This is what I mean when I assert that dichotomous framing of the issue (good vs bad) leads to a zero sum choice where on one side stand the virtuous, and on the other the dubious. It’s de facto. Implicit.
Barp also has spring reverb though it’s digital but I was joking there!
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Dude…yer spinning the SHIT out of this. Disguising it with fancy jargon.
A] just cuz another company is worse than Behr doesn’t make them any less wrong. This thread is about Berh. I’m sorry.
B] Berh chooses to make copies of other people’s werk. And not just vintage shit. Keystep. FAR from vintage.
There is talent at that company yet they choose to not be innovative and just “borrow”. While undercutting other manufacturers. Don’t think they are doing it for the greater good. It’s for THEIR own benefit. Whoever chooses to buy Behr should NOT take offence from those that condemn Behr for ripping off ideas. They had nothing to do with it. And aren’t beholden to Behr for anything. And it says NOTHING of the person who bought it. They just might want to take a sec and think about what that guy is doing. Plain and simple….he’s a thief.
C] lastly, let’s not forget the “Cork Sniffer” affair. That with his business practice says a LOT about his character. Myself, I just cannot support.
That’s just my point of view. 
I just don’t get when people are butt hurt when someone talks shit on Behr. It’s not their place to defend them, unless there is some underlying guilt [kidding again] 
I’m a Burton guy, have been since 83. And I rode with a bunch of Lib guys that shit on Burton ALL THE TIME. “They are too corporate”, “they are killing snowboarding”. Hell…I rode for them for 5 years. I NEVER felt the need to defend.
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Well, I dunno about fancy jargon.
But fair opinion, man. Yeah, I’m not saying Behringer are good. I’m saying the issue is complex. Maybe their affordable offerings of vintage synths outweighs their rip of Arturia and Moog and jab at Kirn? It’s an expensive hobby after all. But if one concludes that B is bad, it naturally follows that those who buy B would also be bad. That’s a moral judgement that often forms the basis of a shaming. That’s been my point, if you don’t agree that’s cool too.
About defending, I mean, this thread is about discussing the “B, clones… good or bad.” It’s a thread inviting such discussion. And like I said, it frames the issue as good vs bad. I know what you mean about defending, but in this case, such discussion was solicited. Peace 
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Damn Burton snowboarding being thrown in the mix was not something I had on my bingo card…I was a Sessions guy myself
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Heh…no. On paper it IS actually bad. Duplicating IP is illegal. No one wants to be the bad guy and pursue him.
Granted some of the clones [not said in a derogatory way] are different enough. And some they have even credited for the design. It’s the ones that are blatant rip offs with no acknowledgement of those that created the original.
There are copyright laws that are dangerously close to being crossed, if not totally over the line. Keystep.
It’s not just Behr. Go to ComicCon. What a shit show. It’s turned into a market for people doing “fan art” aka total rip offs of other people werk and selling it. Disney, tho I hate hate hate them, are poised to drop the hammer. I’m not sure why they haven’t yet. But it could be because they have a shitty enough name as it is and don’t wanna be even more hated. But once that first ComicCon lawsuit goes thru, I wager many will follow.
But, what Behr is doing is actually wrong. That is by no means the fault of anyone buying their stuff. I would never tell someone not to buy something…unless it was a LibTech board 
No I rode those too.
]]end of line[[
said in the voice of the MCP
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“shaming” is not a synonym of “judgement”.
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I’d bet the dude that invented the toilet is super pissed at all the clones of his life’s work. It’s a shitty situation!
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Yeah, you’re right. I hastily expressed the idea. But moral judgment often serves as the basis for shaming. I’ll edit.
I mean, at the risk of repeating myself, does their offering of affordable clones of vintage synths outweigh their transgressions? That’s what I mean when I say it’s complex. For some, it does, weighing the benefit of the clones to the actual harm of those transgressions, etc.
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Yeah, I don’t see it this way. I don’t think anyone’s a good or bad person based solely on what synths they buy. And I don’t think people are saying that, but who knows.
I don’t think anyone is “de facto bad,” really, unless you’re talking mass murder or fraud. Everyone makes shitty decisions. Some are avoidable, some not. Some are selfish, some not.
The problem for a lot of folks, I think, is that you can’t choose what part of the company you give your dollar to. Well, that and there’s fewer and fewer companies left to give your dollar to.
But don’t listen to me. I canceled my NY Times subscription for their shitty editorials but I STILL PAY FOR THE PUZZLES. If anything’s de facto bad, that is.
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With no copyright protection for original circuit board designs, it’d super cool if Beh, and any other company who makes clones/knockoffs/adaptations, got the blessings from the owners of the original designs before moving forward. Just seems like the cool human thing to do, and would make much of the controversy disappear.
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That one stumps me. Cuz isn’t the transgression offering clones of vintage synths. I mean CLONES. Not tributes. How does that outweigh itself 
I put this up once before…you tell me.
I’m gonna go with what @IronIsIronic last posted. The human thing to do. Uli, however, chooses to do the the opposite. Not that he’s inhumane. But he has purposely pushed buttons despite what he is doing. Doubling down on it. A downright asshole in some instances.
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My main gripe with the company is they haven’t responded to my 30+ emails demanding they burn more fossil fuels to get my synths delivered to my retailer faster.
I will draw the line at child labor though. Unless it can lower the price of that new compressor they’re coming out with.
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Whoa there hot potato.
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I mean, they are pretty addictive.
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I’d say the opposite: there’s so much great gear out there not made by the big B, why support them? plenty of other awesome companies to give your cash to.
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This is the bit I find most annoying.
It’s possible to be clear on your ethics and acknowledge compromise.
Greta Thunberg has probably hitched a lift in a diesel car 
It doesn’t make diesel cars suddenly good for our collective future.
The decisions to or not to buy a B synth is weighed-up. There is still merit in being honest about what the company does and why we wish they didn’t.
{edit for clarity} consumption behaviour doesn’t always track one’s own ethics. That’s not a good argument against the validity of said ethics {/edit}
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