The Clone War - Behringer. Good or Bad?

Not brainwashed, but if they have confidence in your descretion and if you talk to them in privat they may disclose there true opinion. But they know very well what happens, if they do it organized and in the public.

SoundRider … over and out … back to Behringer.

Also note behringer aren’t the only people cloning synths , filters , delays etc.
I know they’re big , but many companies are making both hardware and software clones … they all take months and £££ to develop.

There are 1000’s of match 3 clones (candy crush wasn’t the 1st ) catapult physics games (angry birds wasn’t the 1st)… baked beans , bread , hoovers , screwdrivers , console hardware to play nes/SNES/mega drive , sneakers , salad cream, kfc , …why focus on hardware synths when most items get copied…life gets more difficult if you take this to its logical broad conclusion .

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No behringer has kidnapped old synth devs and forced them into slave labor :joy: It probably looks a lot like Jesse in that last season of breaking bad…

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I tend to err on the side of “theres no such thing as an original idea”

That’s what I think too, but there are definitely exception to this. These might have been a few:

  • Thaddeus Cahill for the Telharmonium
  • Léon Theremin for the synth that bears his name
  • Bebe and Louis Barron - All sorts of electronic audio circuitry, and doing the music for Forbidden Planet.

Of course all four of these people used some ideas from others too.

The Theremin of course has been cloned dozens of times, principally now by Moog.

Please someone (Behringer) clone some of the circuitry by the Barron’s — but that’s probably impossible now. Maybe in kit form because some of them were use once and throw away designs.

The Telharmonium would be impossible in total to do, but it certainly gave influence for the Motor Synth from Gamechanger Audio.

I think the people that did work at the early BBC Radiophonic Workshop might be in the category of true innovators too. If someone would like to clone the Oramics machine by Daphne Oram — please. (A group of students in London recreated it fairly recently. But i want something close to the original that’s commercially available.)

There are some other people that at least deserve an honorable mention too.

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Partly right … partly wrong, depends on how we see it.

Recording, preserving, and teaching knowledge is mandatory to create new knowledge. Creating new knowledge was and is almost always based on knowledge created by others. That’s how cultures grow and improve over time in the first place.

There is nothing wrong to use knowledge of others, if it’s done ethically. The first electronic instruments didn’t drop out of thin air. Their inventors used technology, which had been developed to “record” and “broadcast” audio and adopted it to “generate” audio. The principle of an oscillator has not been invented by Moog or Buchla, neither the principle of filters, wavehapers, or wavefolders, but to use and adopt this technology to “create” audio was their contribution. And that’s to be respected as their achievements.

Sometimes the original idea is created by seeing the very same things, which all others see too, but understanding and combining those pieces of information differently and creating thus new insights.

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What I find weird about the whole behringer bashing is, if any othe company brings a clone to the market it’s ok or even raved. Like finally somebody made a clone…
If behringer does it they get bashed. Extremely bashed.

It’s just something I don’t get

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The reason could be very emotional, maybe somehow ideological?

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In a nutshell, Curtis, Peter Kirn, Robin Whittle, treatment of employee’s, aggressive power moves like announcing clones on x0x days, past form and lawsuits, shady tactics, undercutting in production gear, cloning undesirable limitations rather than improving because they don’t know how/why, tacky looking designs with design faux pas a plenty, rushing products to the market with dodgy sync or firmware then not fixing in a timely manner, using their financial might (earned off the back of cloning boss, mackie, electro harmonix clones a decade ago) to silence critics, the list goes on, there are probably many other reasons too.

Some people don’t have a problem with them, some do. I’m sure Behringer will carry on just fine.

Plenty of people bash Roland too, but for different reasons, I’m sure they will carry on just fine too.

Its a free market, people choose what and who they want to buy from, for a myriad of different reasons.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with cloning out of production gear, per se, it is the way in which it is done, some people don’t think Behringer’s clones are very good, personally I think some of them are ok and some miss the mark or are badly designed/implemented.
Some people would prefer that Behringer did better rather than just rushing them out, but that leaves the door open for mk2s, “good news guys, we listened and are proud to announce the RD8 emkaytwo, more pattern memories, reliable sync, full midi CC” :laughing:

Some people find clones extremely boring too, look how many times have people moaned about yet another 303 clone etc.

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Rushing products to the market and leaving the door open for mk2s, yeah that sounds familiar :grinning:

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Interesting collection of reasons, why to be careful about Behringer strategy and products. But as far as no law is violated, critisism should be focused on value for money.

If a company is bragging and not delivering, just let’s learn our lesson and buy other gear. If a “clone” isn’t a “true clone”, but something similar, or may have even some flaws, well, there are plenty options to find out before buying such gear.

The irony of bashing a company is that sometimes by repeatetly mention their name or brand, we create some accidental marketing for them :wink:

Yeah different reasons for different people, a more interesting question might be why do people feel the need to defend Behringer?

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Probably because other people feel the need to attack Behringer!

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Point being they can and do defend themselves without need for their users to do it.

Which companies in particular?

And people attack or defend other companies products so why should Behringer be the exception?

Bad behaviour is likely to attract more criticism, I don’t see any other synth companies getting called out for bad behaviour.

Edit: Actually I do recall a couple of synth companies getting called out for bad behaviour, I don’t think they are in operation any more though.

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Bad behaviour, in whose eyes?

As an engineer in audio technology, I’m really not considering applying for work at Behringer.

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I get it, you don’t see anything wrong with how Behringer operate, that is your decision to make, all the information about the bad behaviour is out there for you to read if you are interested (I suspect not though) I’m not judging you, it is entirely up to you.

Other people have different opinions though, and discussions are usually made up of people with different opinions, it isn’t “hating” to mention facts about Behringer, criticism of other synth companies isn’t comparable if just talking purely about cloning or missing features, or lamenting that a company doesn’t reissue an exact clone of a product it discontinued decades ago etc.

Surely you can see the difference? Most people don’t care that Behringer are cloning, or that they are cheap, it is the way they conduct their business that most Behringer critics dislike, I don’t know how many times this point needs to be reiterated.

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