At the lower levels, both are digital signal processing since no analog circuits are actually present. The models are a pile of digital data* applied via DSP. ~gen in max is a general-purpose DSP engine. If you had the data model for the analog filter, it could be used to do the same DSP.
[*] the data may be generated by modelling mathematical equations realtime, or sets of pre-calculated tables
Bro, digital fm synthesis and digital models of analog filter circuits are very different things, despite both involving DSP.
I had two points… One, that despite being different type of processing, ~gen could do either modeled analog filters or fm or whatever because ~gen is a general purpose DSP engine
Two, my point was not that Ess wrote analog filter simulators, it was that professional sounding tools do come from the MAX DSP engine via ~gen.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Just read that Big Meters are back in 5.1 Beta 2
…about that killer feature that occurs to some as new but, is in fact, already around for quite a while in bitwig, voice stacking, and the question how long it will take to grill ur cpu…
16 indiviidual treated voices in one stack at once is pretty much no real world scenario at all…
and dealing with m1, i can easily run a few tracks here and there, each with with engaged voice stacking in a practical, reasonable and impressive sonic fashion, if i use 2 to 6 individual voices for those…
that’s fad/wide/fluffy/complex enough and mindboggling sonic landscaping at it’s finest and does all the next level additional trick to expect from it…
meanwhile, there is still no such thing to find at all in other daws…
they’re still working around it in good old copy paste style, if ur lucky and only shine for real if u run on some actual cpu…
while the real new killer feature is, that with sweep and filter+ now we get voice stacking even on fx treatment…and no other daw gets even near to that…
but, aaargh i’m not into daw wars…personally, i’m happy that it will take another few moments in history, until bitwig finally grows into THE number one daw…
since we all know, once ur at the top, things can only go downhill from there…
The 5.1 beta 2 release notes mention a Softube console 1 integration bugfix. Turns out that full integration was announced in the beta 1 release notes. And the Softube Console 1 MK3 was announced just a few days ago… Interesting. Controller official support keeps improving slowly but surely.
What uses have you found for FX polyphony? given the output of an instrument voices and polyphony is summed up before entering the FX voices… I have not found many uses that doesn’t finish sounding like sh*t hehe… but I recognise I may have not tested Bitwig enough yet
You have to choose between the clip grid or large meters. The orange/brown faders get even bigger and uglier when you enable it.
I’d love to have the mixer in one window with large meters, and the horizontal clip grid on the other window, but there’s no option to do it.
Giant faders and tiny cramped mute, solo, and record arm buttons are the opposite of what I need, but it seems I may be in the minority if this change was a result of user feedback/usage data.
I think this update may be the one that actually pushes me back to Ableton.
Edit, I don’t want to sound super negative, there’s a lot I like about Bitwig and the new update, I’m just really struggling with the new mixer.
Just email them with some constructive feedback. I’ve always found them to be polite and receptive to ideas. I think they genuinely do care what the users want although, of course, they can’t please everyone!
I had reported a couple of problems about the mixer on beta 1, and then I tried beta 2 yesterday. The big meters are back for those who want them, and away for those who don’t.
Yes, +1.
Ableton is a great DAW. I used it for almost 20 years before switching to Bitwig.
To lend some perspective, however, I finally defected to Bitwig after more than a decade of waiting for Ableton to fix their graphic scaling for high DPI monitors, never mind MPE implementation.
I guess my point is, if ugly, giant faders and small mute buttons are reason enough for you to jump ship, then it would seem to me that Bitwig’s real attributes aren’t really on your radar.
Cheers!
Both great in Live now 
Truth is Live and Bitwig are both great and both have active development and are constantly improving…that’s why I keep/use both!
Well, actually, no…
Ableton is still recording MPE MIDI without preserving the channel data per note.
But it doesn’t matter, because I’m a Bitwig guy now.
Cheers!
You have to choose between big meters or clip grid. Both can’t be active at the same time.
It just seems to work. Lots of people say its better in Bitwig but I haven’t come across it personally, they both work fine for me. I haven’t had any issues recording, editing or playing back MPE from my Osmose or PUSH 3 (and Given Ableton now make an MPE controller I think thewy are invested in MPE now!)
For context, I have both Live 11 Suite, and Bitwig. I defected to Bitwig predominantly years ago while waiting for MPE to come to Live, and having a number of MPE devices.
I’ve continued to bounce between the two, but mostly using Bitwig.
There are things I love about both, hence having kept both. I don’t want to flippantly ‘jump ship’ just because of mixer features, I often use a control surface (SSL UF8, UC1, UF1), but also often work on just a laptop with a controller keyboard and that’s it. That’s where the new mixer becomes really jarring on a laptop screen. I use mutes, solos, and rec. arm a lot more than faders, so then cramping down to the small strip at the top of the faders is awkward, and slows me down.
I’m going to continue to try and get used to it, but I’d love the option of either having the option to switch between old style and new style, or have a modular mixer designer where we can configure it to our needs. I realize what works well for some, doesn’t for others, hence why some love the new mixer, and some not so much. A configurable mixer would make a lot of sense.
If changes to features I use a lot (mixer/buttons) break creative flow, and jar you, then ‘Bitwig’s real attributes’ are a moot point.
…since we’re talking about a truu modular daw, all possible signal chains can go/do/influence anything…and can take ur sonic creations anywhere…well, puh, so it’s literally endless in possebilities and options…and that’s the special magic and the only trouble with bitwig…from super simple to ubercomplexity…it’s all in there…
so what can i say…individual filter and shaper variations at once, treating what…?
a single sound, a fx container, an instrument container, nested anywhere…
first winning results i got from the stacking option in sweep or filter plus…nested stereo split for clear panning of a left version differently distorted/shaped/filtered than the right version…as simple as impressive…
Well, it seems like very a reasonable request to me; easy enough to accommodate.
So, maybe just contact support, put it on their radar, and see if they don’t either digress or implement the ability to scale those components to taste.
Cheers!
It wasn’t voice stacking in general that I was talking about being new, it’s the new voice stacking modulators and grid devices. The grid devices in particular do seem to open up completely new synthesis possibilities for Bitwig that in another DAW you’d have to either hope for a new (fixed) stock device or buy a VST to get. I would absolutely want to use 16 individually treated voices to make harmonic oscillators and generally do additive synthesis without having to make an unmanageably huge grid patch.
I just saw the latest updates to Reaper. They absolutely nailed it with totally modular mixer and track layouts - you can totally edit the track/mixer layout per track.
Something similar for Bitwig would be pure gold.