Synthstrom Deluge as live looper (vs OT or in general)

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Hi All

Starting a thread per the above for the following reasons:

  1. Alot of Elektronauts seem to be into live looping;
  2. A fair few of us have Deluges;
  3. The Deluge has looping functionality, but there are strangely very few good demos online of the Deluge being used for this purpose (as opposed to lots on the OT);
  4. From a personal perspective, I am just getting into live ambient guitar looping on the OTmk2, and loving it. The PU machines have their pitfalls which are well known, but it’s still a fun solution, particularly as PU loops can be sliced/played with on Flex machines. However, I also have Deluge, and a Morningstar foot controller (which works well with both OT and Deluge). So I am interested in experiences from:
  • People who have looped with both Deluge and (separately) the OT who can share experiences/compare; or
  • People who have looped with the Deluge.

Personally, I am in to creative/ambient/soundscapey looping, zero interest in a one man band type scenario where someone lays down quantised funky parts. All of the OT demos I have seen tend to be one man band scenarios, and less really creative stuff. Is this because the Deluge is not well suited for that?

Comments are very welcome! I have some specific questions but would like to keep this open ended at first.

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Aeros Loop Studio Looper
#2

Live looping on the Dellie is fast, immediate and clever. However, audio tracks in the Deluge don’t have access to all that many parameters as regular samples, so in comparison to what Deluge can do to samples, which is a lot, there’s the somewhat odd reduction of features for audio tracks.

Having said that, I find it quick, inspiring and immediate as a tool for writing music. For live
performance, haven’t tried.

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#3

  1. Could you please elaborate on what is missing in terms of audio manipulation? I suspect this is why people are not using this creatively (or perhaps you are)?

  2. Have you used the OT mk2 for this purpose so you can compare?

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#4

Yep, while I didn’t use the pickup machines much, I used trig recorders for live looping all the time while on the OT and while it’s a bit messy, once you’ve learned it with muscle memory, it’s superior to the Deluge’s live looping in many, but not all, ways. To instantly reach for audio manipulation on your recorded loop on the OT, apply scenes, just warp it around, gives you so much space and freedom as compared to the Deluge’s slightly more obtuse interface.

As for features, for audio loops the Deluge has no envelopes, no lfo’s, a fairly crude time stretch algoritm and a few more things. It’s quite basic and even waveform editing is a bit awkward.

But - what the Dellie got going for it, is the fact that you got an entirely different overview of what’s going on and to slap on additional layers, is so fast and easy. To then just reach for another track and add samples, synths or other external audio sources, has an immediacy and fluency that the Octatrack don’t. For composing, for ideas, for experimenting more with structure and take it further than just loops, the Deluge has more going for it.

In general, I would say, the more of a composer you are, the more Deluge has to offer. The more of a live act you are, the Octatrack is perhaps slightly better.

This is all just my own personal experience and the Deluge as a live instrument on its own is great. For live looping, though, if it was part of my act, I’d say there are better choices. But I’m very much more a writer and composer, so the Deluge is more appropriate for my needs.

I should add that the Deluge streams, and you’re not bound by RAM as you could be on the Octatrack, depending on how you set it up. So if you just look at the Deluge’s foundation, it doesn’t really apply any limits where it really counts. That’s the core of the Deluge - the basic stuff, the kind of stuff people usually go “Oh, they did what? But why didn’t they …”, the Dellie takes care and removes most of that.

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#5

It took just one New Zealander to crack the streaming nut that still give Akai’s engineers nightmares, it seems.

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#6

I looked into both of these as live looping solutions, gave them each some careful consideration; and, for what it’s worth, if I were to adopt one of them for performance purposes, it’d be the Octatrack by a country mile.

Anyway, just my proverbial two cents.

Cheers!

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#7

Thanks for that detailed comment CircuitGhost, really interesting and useful. I am probably more a composer than a live performer, but still lean towards the OT, based on what you have said. From the little looping I have done in the Deluge I do like the graphic indicators of loop length, and really like the option to do asynchronous looping in the Deluge.

But the ability to develop audio in all the amazing ways that can be done in the OT is just not there on the Deluge, and I believe never will be.

The multiple outs and ability to set up an effects loop is a serious pro of the OT, along with the other advantages you identify.

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#8

Thanks for the comment John, am interested to know your rationale? Is what tips you towards the OT?

#9

Indeed. Being a kiwi, I am proud of that, particularly given the small and independent nature of Synthstrom.

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#10

I was down that road for a long time, and you’re def right in your conclusions.

I did find, eventually, that the kind of audio manipulation and specifics I was after, was best found in external sources anyway, and then to resample. So I got a modest collection of Chase Bliss boards now, I run material through them and then resample. For putting it all together into something more coherent, the Deluge can’t be beat and for the character I’m after and work with, the OT in the end wasn’t for me.

#11

Well, let’s see if I can articulate this without writing a novel. :wink:

  • Both units need to be preconfigured for looping, so there’s no clear winner there.
  • Both units are only capable of doing basic, linear looping; so again, neither has the upper-hand in that respect.
  • I’m only really interested in recording external sources, so the Deluge has a lot of unnecessary functionality to wade through, that would otherwise be wasted if it were to be used only as a looper, given that it was designed as an all-in-one groovebox or sorts.
  • The one advantage these kinds of platforms have over, say, pedal loopers (which are way easier to use live, and far more capable) is their ability to manipulate audio in real-time after it has been recorded; and the Deluge simply can’t hold a candle to the Octatrack in that department.
  • I like the Elektron workflow better.
  • I like the Octatrack’s interface better (extra points for the crossfader).
  • I don’t need another groovebox, as I already own several.
  • As a general utility for sampling, mixing, effects, and sequencing, you get more with the Octatrack; so, it would be an asset to both my studio and my live rig.

I could go on, but that’s the gist. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Cheers!

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#12

Personally for looping as in live looping I think they both fall short, but they are also both excellent machines for playing loops and capturing loops, it is the handling where they can’t compete with a dedicated looper, they both do a lot more than the average dedicated looper and as such are pretty clunky to use.

Doesn’t mean it isn’t possible though, it just depends on your patience and expectations, and probably with a foot pedal the experience would be better - I never tried it.

IMHO.

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#13

I couldn’t agree more, but they asked. :wink:

If I were to add an Octatrack to my looping setup, however, it would be to process the audio coming from my pedal loopers (two 'Rang III’s).

Cheers!

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#14

John has articulated well here the reason that I am enjoying looping with the OT so much, and why I think it is the tool for me (for this purpose) rather than the Deluge - audio manipulation - which is where the OT excels.

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#15

Thanks for the detailed comments. Appreciated.

#16

Yeah, that’s ultimately why I sold the deluge. The looping was fun and intuitive but it was over kill to use the deluge rather than getting a dedicated looper pedal.

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#17

For me the Deluge is really outstanding as a cv or midi sequencer, maybe in a class of it’s own, but the rest of the features are less strong.

#18

Whoa, now Anyone dismissing it as a sampler and synth, hasn’t spent proper time with it yet. It’s no OT but it beats pretty much anything else out there as far as audio manipulation goes. And the synth engine is lovely. A BoC machine that hung out with that Richard D James bloke. Them new Roland boxes for instance, got nothing on
old Dellie.

Yep. I’m in camp Zealand.

I also think the Lord of the Rings is the best movie ever made.

The long version, of course. The short is but a trifle.

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#19

Interesting, I admit I haven’t delved that deeply into the Deluge. What are the key audio manipulation features that I should try out? (I am aware of the synthesiser side of the unit which is pretty deep but prefer dedicated synths for that kind of thing).

#20

It most definitely holds its own on all features It’s boast. It was a close call choosing one box to rule.

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