So what, more is not better than less(unless money). Less is also not better than more.
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neither of them are mastering devices, really.
I’d go as far as saying Stimming did a bad service from educational and mastering-profession point of view with his marketing misnomer. could be a good working end of chain solution for live shows, but that’s a different thing altogether, and he knows it well enough, as his releases were (and will be still) professionally mastered.
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That is exactly the entire point of the device.
It’s indeed a bit over the top to call it the way it is called but anybody spending 3k on a piece of kit should probably know what it is they are buying
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if the device was targeted squarely at ‘those who know’, it wouldn’t be called the way it is, come on.
the only reason it is misnamed in a very certain way is to market it to those who don’t. and it works, as people repeat this, even here.
it can also be argued that it was never needed by the majority of ‘those who know’, as a) the house has things, b) it’s too small anyway to cramp the quality above the digital solutions, and there’s nothing else available, so the niche/sales are small enough. it is probably created for the growing market of smaller performing acts, but that’s exactly where ‘mastering’ misnomer makes a disservice.
wake me up when any major pro-audio brand makes a similar thing. I agree you pour cold water on me sleeping if they call it a ‘mastering’ whatever
FYI Bettermaker refers to their limiter as “Mastering Limiter” even though all it does it clip/limit with a lot of control.
I think using “Mastering” in the name/description is appropriate if the gear is intended for any part of the mastering process. “Instant Mastering Chain” doesn’t mean the same thing as “Complete Mastering Chain.”
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Ok so I think the Finalizer is better as a dynamics optimizer with its 3 band expander / compressor / limiter, normalizer, eq…and I really like the overdrive / distortion you can get from its inputs. Presets and midi control.
you probably didn’t read the argument, as your example just proves my point. yes, Bettermaker makes truly pro audio gear, mostly for mastering purposes. the ML is rack mounted, 5kg, and tailored to specific task.
haven’t tried one, but I presume you’re on point here!
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It was not a devilish commercial marketing decision to mislead “the people”, that is a bit too exaggerated.
The device is meant for live electronic music to “compete” with DJ’s who play mastered tracks. AKA to have your own liveset sound as if it was “instantly mastered”. Hence the name. It was also named like this for the fun of it. Not everything is evil deceivement.
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Maybe it shouldn’t but it is. It’s a bit tongue in cheek and those who know, know 
Eh. Have you ever performed live in clubs, smaller venues etc.? Wouldn’t you agree that it is better to strive for a sound for your live set that sounds as finished as possible to you and to compete with l;oudness when playing in between DJs? Even if there is an engineer on site, rather than hoping the engineer will understand what you nare going for, I’ll go for as much of the sound I want under my own control. But maybe that’s just me being a bit of a control freak ;). Personally use Analog heat or Boum for this same purpose and it has been serving me well for years, with or without an engineer present.
I disagree because it makes sense in that context even though it’s not literally the same thing.
Not a valid point.
To call this name a shameless marketing ploy while we are talking about an extreme 300 euro niche product is frankly a bit funny 
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sure, there’s no evil or poison in a bottle of snake oil
but the funny oxymoron priced as if it cured some (imaginary) disease.
don’t get me wrong, I’ve no problem with the price, but it is a marketing instrument, just like the name — for any product, this including. it’s not jokes that sell. what sells here is an impression that it’s a pro-grade tool that might even save you a grand and a kilo of equipment, providing a better result than your plugins, or the in-house equipment. which is doubtful to say the least.
but I’d only said politely it doesn’t help to educate people. the same dear Stimming tried to convince us Octatrack’s SQ is lacking, didn’t he?
You have not tried this unit at all. So your opinion on it being snake oil, non-pro, uneffective compared to other offerings etc. etc, means exactly nothing
No offense meant of course
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FYI, the many times my sound was destroyed by in house equipment because they were not used to handle signals with much higher dynamic range, has been enough to never want to rely on that again. Ever. And having used heat, boum and IMC for this specific use has been great.
If you’d like a list of major live acts doing the same, using the same equipment for this very purpose, let me know.
edit: interesting to see this thing still has such a controversial effect on some people, just because of the name :).
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If one uses a bit of drive, eq, and compression during the mastering process and can utilize the IMC to do these things, its name wouldn’t be out of place. I don’t see why this unit couldn’t be used for mastering if one chooses.
The only issue I had with it is the price, but the 500 series version addresses this. People regularly use lunchboxes for mixing/mastering. I consider the IMC to be pro audio gear.
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Well, if we’re talking about ideal mastering gear you’d want an amount of recall (stepped knobs) but the IMC does tick all the boxes for mastering processes I’d want: compression, EQ, drive. I think the lack of recall actually helps in a live environment since every venue is different, you need to make that adjustment yourself
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Such strong vitriol against a box to warm and make sounds louder 
focus that energy on something a bit more productive, haha.
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100% this. Especially in clubs you want as much control over the sound as possible because it’s a fast environment and less ‘foh live mixing’ than say a concert venue.
I do love playing concert venues too cause it gives you to the opportunity to talk to sound guys working with nice digital consoles. It’s how I learnt to appreciate digital consoles tbh.
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pal, you’re stretching my arguments… too never said it’s that bad of Stimming/company, but as I often do, tried to voice a reasonable criticism/warning, often missing in our echo chambers, imho!
and I remember similar arguments with you, and not many others, over similar small but obvious matters which now look more and more a tendency of over-protecting manufacturers, and not users. the exact Analog Heat issues was one of those iirc. can’t get the point here, really.
back on topic though: I see no valid argument in speaking of the loudness wars with DJs while playing live. mastering is NOT about sounding loud to start with, right? ‘finished’ and ‘loud’ are not at all the same tasks, and your listeners do not expect (and have no means) to hear the ‘finished’ sound in live shows, but I’ll read this particular word used as a kind of a metaphor for loudness again. for sounding great! ))
so to me this is yet another example of things going the wrong way. professional musicians with careers (ie Stimming) should educate and develop the scene, in technicalities too, not selling tongue-in-cheek jokes to esoteric circle of ‘those who know’, as you keep repeating. but then again, it’s $3k device. my argument that the absence of other similar product is very correct, sorry, in the exact case if it’s targeted at PRO users who KNOW things and their jokes. and you are correct in the exact case if they try to sell it to those who perceive mastering as loudness.
and I can only scratch my head hearing you’d used AH for ‘THIS SAME purpose’ before, which means that your venues had limiters at least! there’s no comp and no limiter on AH. there’s the volume drop problem. there’s the dist SQ level way beyond any api500 module I know.
yet certainly it’s great to have basic controls IMC offers right in your disposal while playing live, I’ve never said to the contrary — yet similarly, there’s no need to belittle venue engineers, because all of them know what we’re going for, as the task you’ve described is real simple and age old.
your plugins know it too! can IMC sound better or be controlled easier? ofc, it might well be, that’s a different question, a $3k question no less… which is easier to answer ‘yes! yes! more!’ when it’s about ‘instant mastering’, as it begs using the device at home for those purposes too. I’ve heard enough stories of people using AH for that and calling it ‘mastering’ as well.
so then the question becomes… first, how many IMC users are here at all? and second, of those, how many use it for ‘mastering’ tracks at home studios with it? and of those, how many tried professional mastering services?
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offence is hanging in the air though. I’ve never said anything of this. even the snake oil thing is pulled out of the context.
go read again please
it’s a pro device ofc, as we can consider any performing musician a pro, regardless of other factors. I’ve only said it’s no pro MASTERING device, and being marketed to the wider audience, it kinda leads them to a dangerous path. but enough on that, I don’t want to come down as anti-Stimming or IMC-basher at all.
Nah it’s pretty clear what you mean. And since you’ve tried to lower my opinion to “over-protecting” of manufacturers, I’m out. Neither have the time to go into why what you wrote above is mostly incorrect (regarding heat for in live use for starters).
I can only invite you to have a look at a few of my videos going into this subject into detail using IMC,. heat and boum.
Time for an Elektronauts pause.
Cheers
Edit: one more thing. I was not belitteling audio engineers. I have friends who are live audio engineers. Please read my post again because I never said anything close to belittle that group of people. Frankly find it quite rude you imply that. Try and read your own posts to reflect how they might come across.
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I use the IMC, but I am not happy
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