Still trying to understand how saving kits, patterns, songs work

[lyhraam]

Ok so it’s about 4 songs I annihilated and can’t get back thanks to my brick brain that just can’t wrap around how saving works on my MnM+ and I can’t keep doing that so I’ll finally try to understand what’s going on.

I get that patterns are automatically saved and kits are not.
A kit is a sum of all 6 track settings as a whole, can’t save one sound as a preset or something
Songs just have metadatas for which patterns are coming in what order, and not the actual contents like sounds and trig locks and what not
Snapshots are like saving the state of the machine as a whole including patterns, songs, digiwaves, etc.
I get it
or at least I think i get it to be such

but I don’t get how patterns and kits are linked together
like when I start a new snapshot, make the first kit using 6 tracks and make a decent pattern out of them on, say, A1 pattern slot, then save it, it doesn’t seem like the pattern data is stored with the kit.
Like if I start working on a new kit on kit#2, and turns out I’m not really going anywhere with it, I will try to load the first kit, hoping it has the pattern saved with it, but when I load it, the pattern data is for some reason gone…?

I thought each pattern, A1, A2, …A16, B1, B2,… all the way to H16 are tied together with the kits(sounds)? Is it not that way??

I’m so confused

What exactly is saved when I save a kit
and what’s loaded when I load a kit?
sometimes the kit comes with a pattern
and sometimes it’s just the sounds

I usually just try to work with 6 tracks (1kit) for making a whole song out of them using different sequences for different patterns
but I can’t figure out how I should go about saving them so that I can retain both the sounds and sequences when I wanna load them up again after working on something different .

[LyingDalai]

Each time you want to switch to a new pattern,

• save the current Kit before switching
• switch to your new pattern
• save Kit as new (I personally name it after the pattern, then possibly add some name)

You should be good, then.

[lyhraam]

Ty for the reply!

If I use the same exact sounds for the new pattern as the earlier pattern I was working on, should I save the kit new again?

Like if I was working on A1, then move to A2 to use as the breakdown sequence using the same set of sounds, should I save it again?? or does it save automatically since patterns are saved automatically anyway??

[PeterHanes]

@lyhraam

I get that patterns are automatically saved and kits are not.
A kit is a sum of all 6 track settings as a whole, can’t save one sound as a preset or something
Songs just have metadatas for which patterns are coming in what order, and not the actual contents like sounds and trig locks and what not
Snapshots are like saving the state of the machine as a whole including patterns, songs, digiwaves, etc.
I get it

You do: the above is correct.

@lyhraam

when I start a new snapshot, make the first kit using 6 tracks and make a decent pattern out of them on, say, A1 pattern slot, then save it, it doesn’t seem like the pattern data is stored with the kit.

That’s correct.

In fact, it is the kit number that is stored with the pattern. So if you load a pattern, that pattern will call up the kit that is associated with the pattern.

If you want a number of patterns to share the same sounds, then use the same kit with all those patterns.

@lyhraam

if I was working on A1, then move to A2 to use as the breakdown sequence using the same set of sounds, should I save it again?? or does it save automatically since patterns are saved automatically anyway?

You do not need to save the patterns - as you know, they are saved automatically.

If you make changes to the sounds, then you should save the kit.

[LyingDalai]

@lyhraam

If I use the same exact sounds for the new pattern as the earlier pattern I was working on, should I save the kit new again?

You can perfectly share the same Kit across different patterns. Just keep in mind that if you adjust e.g. volume levels, they will be changed for all the patterns using this Kit.

And as Peter said, if you want to keep these changes, save the Kit (on itself).

[spazzickagent]

same b:

[lyhraam]

Oh wait I think I’m finally starting to see something

So its that “pattern” has kit number data saved in them
Not kit having pattern stored in them
Like its the other way around from what I thought
Is that correct?

If i wanna override whatever kit came with the pattern when i load a pattern, i can load a different kit on top of it?
If i wanna have the machine to remember to use that kit instead of the pre-associated kit with the pattern, should I save the kit?

[lyhraam]

What if i use, say vol 100 for track 1 on the first pattern, but use the exact same sounds except vol 80 for track 1 on the second pattern?
How should I save this?
Saving kit as new??

[LyingDalai]

Yes indeed.

[lyhraam]

ahhh ok thank you so much!
Not sure if I still understand the structure/mechanism down to the core
but at least I’ll know how to avoid accidental wipeouts
that’ll be (hopefully) enough for now

[LyingDalai]

The technique to learn the Elektron machines is pretty simple: learn, try, fail/succeed, repeat.

[PeterHanes]

@lyhraam

So its that “pattern” has kit number data saved in them
Not kit having pattern stored in them
Like its the other way around from what I thought
Is that correct?

Yes.

@lyhraam

If i wanna override whatever kit came with the pattern when i load a pattern, i can load a different kit on top of it?

Yes.

@lyhraam

If i wanna have the machine to remember to use that kit instead of the pre-associated kit with the pattern, should I save the kit?

In that situation, you only need to save the kit f you change the sounds within the kit. The pattern will automatically know which kit number is associated with the pattern.