Sp303 or sp404sx?

The Lounge Other Gear
#41

Haha, well, we’ll see. I’m still enjoying the sequencer, despite my shortcomings with the instrument so far. So maybe it’ll stay that way.
It’s very clear to me that I prefer the fx and sound of the SP before the Octatrack. Not to rekindle the debate on whether or not the Octa sounds good - I think it does - but what you can do with the samples once they’re in the box. The SP:s fx appear superior to me, even though we’re still honeymooning, of course. That alone is enough value for me.
I had an ES2 on order but cancelled it about a week before it arrived to the store. Having owned an E2 and liking it for what it was, I was kind of prepared for what the ES2 would be. But the more I read about it, the more I was “Seriously?”
We’re always going on about what you can and can’t do with our instruments, but the Tribes aren’t really about that. It’s not about complaining or approving. The debates on the Tribes is about a product that didn’t get the time it deserved to mature, and about using the Electribe legacy to give an impression of what this new take could be. It’s may things, but considering that the blueprint for the Electribes have had a bunch of common features since the late 90’s, most of them now thrown out the window, it’s just a weird direction for the line, misleading - which causes disappointment.

Call them Kaoss Groove Pro, and everyone would’ve liked them from the start.

#42

I could. But that would be losing part of the point of getting the SP in the first place.
The original point, that is. Now that I have it, I’ll tinker with it and likely redefine my purpose for it.[/quote]
Then use threshold levels wisely. Set the sampler to arm and when it hears that first transient it will kick off. That way you have your start point down. Then, if you don’t want to trigger playback by OT, set the sequencer length to the length of the sample in terms of bars, set quantize on, trigger the loop on beat 1 of the sequence, turn gate off of the sample, slave sequencer to your RYTM or whatever is your master clock, done

#43

I could. But that would be losing part of the point of getting the SP in the first place.
The original point, that is. Now that I have it, I’ll tinker with it and likely redefine my purpose for it.[/quote]
Then use threshold levels wisely. Set the sampler to arm and when it hears that first transient it will kick off. That way you have your start point down. Then, if you don’t want to trigger playback by OT, set the sequencer length to the length of the sample in terms of bars, set quantize on, trigger the loop on beat 1 of the sequence, turn gate off of the sample, slave sequencer to your RYTM or whatever is your master clock, done [/quote]
Thanks for the advise! It made things a lot easier and removed some head scratching. I very much appreciate you taking the time for answering this.
In the end, I believe I’ll keep using the 404 as a sampler & resampler with fx, and sketch pad for ideas. It feels likely that I’ll stick to the plan and put the final results in the Rytm only. The sequencer in the Rytm combined with the filters, comp and modulation offer too much sonic variety and adds that subtle but important organic variation to repeating sounds.
But we’ll see. Right now, I’m building a complete track only within the SP. I find it’s the best way to learn an instrument, to use it in isolation to push it to its limits.

#44

Another (GOOD) option is to buy a cheap one channel external sequencer (an old $50 Roland will do it) and sync that to RYTM and use it to sequence the 404.

It really does come into it’s own when using a different sequencer. Also, don’t forget to take stereo off when sampling mono sources - there’s no simple stereo-mono resampling function on the 404.

#45

I’ll certainly consider it, and perhaps try it with the Octatrack first, like a dry run of sorts.
However, by simply using the samples produced within the 404, in like the Analog Rytm, it would seem I get access to both the awesome sounds I create, and the sequencer that goes with the Rytm, not to mention the additional modulations I can add within the Rytm.
I don’t use more than eight tracks for what I do - or rather have decided not to - so I don’t need the additional polyphony that the 404 would offer as a stand alone unit. It’s handy and convenient if in case, but it’s not necessary.
For now, I’m thoroughly enjoying running samples through it, completely messing them up with resampling and them throw them into some absolutely unexpected context. It has a certain character that sets it apart from the Elektron sound.

#46

Ergonomically that seems pretty sound. You might not like the 404 sound once it’s converted and run through the AR though.

Without considering workflow, having the two side by side is quite nice because of the sonic variance, but I totally get what you’re saying :slight_smile:

#47

There’s always a tradeoff :slight_smile: I’m preparing a live set for about an hour’s worth of material, and I’m comfortable with having two instruments on stage at once. But certainly not more.
The Rytm is a given, and I can get by with just that one, and I would like the idea. The second one is what’s still on trial, though. It could certainly be the Octatrack, but next to the Rytm, I’m just constantly reminded of how much more I enjoy what you can do with the samples within the Rytm.
So there’s the 404 then, which definitely has appeal for real-time laser awesome and jamming. And of course, throwing in a keyboard instrument instead. I’m quite an accomplished keyboard player and I think that could add something to the show. But I’m not an experienced musician on stage - as in not at all :slight_smile: - and it’s just recently I’ve been receiving requests for gigs. I think I’ll just freeze up when it comes to “awesome solo time” for the keyboard parts.
So I’ll most likely stick with the more DJ-esque approach, with boxes that trigger stuff I’ve prepared with room for live manipulation.
The Rytm is a given, as said, and then perhaps the 404, depending on how I find it in that context. Its primary purpose was for working the sounds in a studio context, but I’ve seen what people do with it live. Feels like it could keep the floor going for hours on its own, if you do it right.

#48

It sounds like you’re pretty well set on the SP-404 and I don’t actually have experience with that one. But I recently grabbed myself an SP-606 and I have quite a bit of experience with the 202, 505 and 808 and I have to say, all things considered, I’m finding it to be the most well-rounded and refined SP I have used.

It’s high capacity, like the 404, with 32 banks holding up to 512 samples. It streams right from the card so requires no loading, yet it does allow you to make up to 4 backups (aka projects) on your card so that you don’t have to switch cards to call up another 32 banks. It has 2 effects blocks, in series, which is very nice and the external sequence sampling is rock solid and gets you perfect loops every time, instantly. It has a decent v/a monosynth on board, velocity sensitive pads and a 4 track sequencer.

On the downside, it would appear to be about twice as wide as the 404, it can’t run on batteries and the maximum CF card size is 512mb. It is rather plastic-y (but it feels solid enough to me). The auto-chop works well but, as far as I can tell, there is no way to fine tune the chop points manually if you don’t like what it comes up with on its own. It is billed as having 8 voices but that’s only for mono samples; it takes 2 voices per each stereo sample.

I don’t know, for some reason, I always overlooked this one. A little toyish looking, perhaps. But it’s actually like a really good cross between the SP-808 and SP-505, which are two of my all time favorite phrase samplers.

Like I said, it sounds like you may have your mind made up but it might be worth looking into. I’ve always been a firm believer in having one sampler that is a realtime mangler (ESX, MC-909, OT type of thing) alongside an SP as a big sampletank for capturing phrases from all of my other gear. And to that end, the 606 has inherited all of the best SP features except for the 808’s timestretching (sigh).

edit Forgot to mention that the 606 imports/exports WAV files. I know for sure that the 808 used Roland’s “RDAC” compression, not sure what format all of the other SP’s used. The sound quality on the 606 is solid and in no way “dulled,” as I always found the 808 to be. Just sayin. :smiley:

#49

Oh man, I can’t even tell you how badly I wanted to love the Microsampler! lol Key Gate sampling on it is amazing, for one thing. But, for me, it completely lost the plot in some very key areas. Still though, there is really nothing else quite like it.

#50

I know a guy who can really rock the ms-1 live but not me, hell no. I use it for sketching out ideas and making loops bc it’s way more intuitive than anything else I have for that.

One thing I don’t get is how you guys don’t like the 808 sound. IMO it sounds better than any of the other sp’s. Hhmmmm…

I do love the 505 (and no the 606 can not move slice points, bummer huh?). If they remade the 505 with current ram/storage, it would kick so much ass.

What about the new beatstep pro, couldn’t you use that to run the so and maybe even a few other pieces all while only using the bsp and rytm?

#51

I appreciate the continuous advise and debate in this thread, and while I’ve bought a 404SX now, I keep looking at the options suggested here, since I still consider the 404 on trial (in effect, that’s actually true - the store has a no questions asked, 30 days return policy - if I don’t like it, I get my money back - period).

What I’m discovering is that while the 404 has a distinct quality that sets it apart from my other gear, it hasn’t so far inspired any new tracks or sequences out of the ordinary. It doesn’t warp my ideas like my other stuff do. But then again, I’ve only had it for a few days so I don’t know it well enough to get to the point where learning its mechanics is no longer part of the production process.

One of the reasons I got it was to make the sampling of my gear more direct. Its portability and directness made it an attractive option to the Octatrack, either as a companion or a replacement for its sampling duties.

But I’m also wondering if I’m just making excuses before the fact that making good music is hard work, and a solid track takes time. One of the best things I’ve produced in the recent months (incidentally, also one of the only things, but it turned out pretty good) was a result of multiple recordings at different occasions, experimentation with some modulations and fx, and a series of sequences and small cuts that just all blended together eventually from different directions, into a whole. A drum loop from the Volca Sample that just turned out pretty nice, a few sequences from the Tempest that created nice harmonies together, a hit loop with a clap from the Tanzbaer with a nicely calibrated swing setting within the Analog Rytm. And so on. None of these sections were created with the purpose of working together, but once I started building on one of them, I took things from the other recordings that I felt were appropriate, and eventually it all came together.

And I wonder if that’s just the way it is for me, and no additional sampler will make that easier. I’ve made it difficult for me, but only because I very much enjoy the end result once I get there, and really look forward to playing these kind of tracks live. Focusing on the essential gear for this won’t make the hard work go away, just make it more obvious.

So perhaps an additional sampler is not what I need.

But we’ll see. I really like the 404SX for what it is and there’s still a couple of weeks left for me to try it out before I make a final decision.

#52

I agree, some of the larger SPs may be better for you but you wanted a smaller footprint and the SD is quite handy…

Have you tried it yet for portable recording? I know portability was one of your requirements…

#53

You’re absolutely right, that was a primary purpose. And it works great! I’m like a sampler ninja, just blazing around with my sampler, capturing stuff from everywhere and anywhere. For immediacy, this thing can’t be beat. The Octatrack is like a slug in comparison.

And the SD aspect is sort of mandatory when you’re used to the Octatrack, and tend to view samples as small or large sections of sound, limited by your idea of what they could be, not by anything else. If it’s a one hour backing track, then that’s what it is. If it’s a half a second one shot, that’s fine too.

I can’t think of a better match for what I was looking for, and what I’m figuring out now was if I really need this in the first place. But that’s half the fun, experimenting with gear. I’ve sampled some of the fx from the SP into the Octatrack, since some of them make noises on their own - the vinyl stuff, radio tuning and so on. Creating sequences in slices from those noises and then adding beats to those, adds a whole new dimension to the purpose of the SP. Suddenly, it’s almost like a primitive synth noise machine.

In a stroke of panic and completely unrelated to this, I just bought a second hand Yamaha AN200. They never appear around here. Suddenly, one just popped its head out. Now it’s mine.

And here I go, saying I’m through buying stuff.

Who am I kidding?

Certainly not myself.

#54

Based on what you just said let me add this.

I bought my sp-404 before the OT, ms-1, or iPad had ever been released. If I were to be honest, I would happily trade all my samplers now for an OT. I love my so-404 but there isn’t much it can offer that the OT can’t. As a matter of fact, even my iPad kind of crushes the old sp series these days; with samplr, loopy, gadget, etc…

I still think if you want hardware, the so-404 is great. I think Kotare said prepare loops outside the box and import if that sound is what you want. But really, I would almost suggest grabbing a few pedals to warm up the OT.

I made some pretty good stuff (well…) on my sp-404 but it was hard work. My ms-1 and IPad really give me quicker results now.

I’m not saying you should return it necessarily but it may not be what you need either.

Most of us ol’ Roland sampler diehards grew up on them. My first sampler was an sp-505. Then the 404, then 808. Tbh I don’t even touch the 808 anymore, just too much of a headache. It’s just in our blood. I will never sell my 404, it’s fun to play with but it ain’t easy to master.

#55

An-200!

Lucky man, I always wanted one of those.

#56

You might very well be right. I think I needed to try out an SP sampler to realize this, though. I’m enjoying it, so we’ll see. It gives me ideas.
I have a couple of MiniFoogers. I use the Delay one to warp sounds when I sample them, heavy on the mix and lots of feedback, and then I hit the sample button when it’s just a carpet of extended sounds bouncing back and forth. Very nice. And the Drive pedals gives the whole thing a vintage sound.
So maybe I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing, and put in the time.

#57

I know, right? They really sound like nothing else. I love the older Electribes, but they’re sort of the best of classic techno and dance. Yamaha were on to something in the early 2000’s. I hope they’ll get back in the game. Maybe this ReFace thing could be it.

#58

Ha, this is my #1 frustration with the 404. I get the turntable set up, I find a usable sample, get my levels sorted, sample it, trim it down, get it looping nicely and then realise I didn’t set it to mono. So I either sacrifice a voice or I got back to square one.
I prefer to use mono for polyphony reasons, but I could count the number of times I’ve remembered it first time on the fingers on one hand.

#59

If you find that the only real use for the 404 is sample capture then maybe you could get the refund and get a field recorder.
They’re even more portable and just as quick, you can plug into them or use their on-board stereo mics and managing the files over USB is fast and easy.

#60

If you find that the only real use for the 404 is sample capture then maybe you could get the refund and get a field recorder.
They’re even more portable and just as quick, you can plug into them or use their on-board stereo mics and managing the files over USB is fast and easy.[/quote]
Well, I was looking for a sampler that did interesting things with the sound and allowed me to at least jam with my samples like ideas for a track, perhaps a replacement for the Octatrack.
But if anything, I’m rediscovering my love for the Octa again.