Sp303 or sp404sx?

Friends,

I got an Octatrack. I got a Rytm. I don’t need more hiquality sampling devices.

But I do need something with more character, for warm and raw stuff, with some dirt on top. I’m filthy.

People say the sp404sx packs the most features and I should go for that.

Others tell me yes, perhaps, but the character of the sp303 is more relevant for what I’d like to do.

This is what I’m doing:

Which sampler is more relevant to me? I have no xperience in any of these.

If its lo-fi/dirt you’re after, then I’d suggest the 303.

The later ones (404, 555 etc) probably s**t all over the 202 & 303 in terms of capability & features etc, but IMHO they lack the mojo. They don’t really offer anything else that you can’t already get from AR or OT, except for maybe some additional fx - but those are nothing special…

Something else to be aware of in case you come across a cheap 202 - it takes 2 or 4MB 5v smart media cards (which are apparently getting rare/expensive) while the 303 takes a 3.3v card.

Thanks, appreciate the advise. SmartMedia is always a pain. The older Electribes all use them and if nothing else, that makes them uncertain bets for the future.
To be honest, I’m still enjoying the sounds I’m getting from the Volca Sample. There’s something going on there that just makes it very groovy. So something like that, but with a few bulletproof features such as saving and exporting would be nice.

I’m a big fan of the Zoom Sampletrak. Memory is smart media but the limitations in size just encourage old school style. Playing a pitched up drum hit in and then pitching it down on the zoom sounds great. The effects can also be controlled via midi (unlike the SPs) so it makes a usefull tool for cued audio from your box.

I think a big reason it’s so cheap is that for most users the midi is broken. It requires note length information with each pad trigger so a lot of users find it incompatible with their gear. On the OT it’s no problem at all.

I can’t help but think it’s time for a new Roland sampler, it’s long overdue as the last 404 wasn’t really much more than a new card format and uncompressed audio format, it has to be soon…
Pick up a 303 if you can get it for a decent price and wait to see what’s next would be my advice.

All very true.

Then there’s the Electribe Sampler just around the corner (or right at the corner, depending on where you live), which sounds pretty good. With its effects and resampling options, you can make funky stuff with it.

So that’s an option too. Sixteen tracks, each with individual fx, amps, filters and stuff, is not entirely unattractive. And I don’t much care about the rants on the new Electribe reboot. I’ve got the E2, it’s a great piece of gear as long as you know what it is and use it for what it can do, not what early Korg marketing said you could do.

Korg’s designers and engineers didn’t fuck this one up. Their marketing people did.

Maybe an Electribe ESX-1 fit your bill?

All the best,

waldemaR

I’ve considered it, but a lot of its user slam it for the poor fx and those tubes, though everyone loves the workflow.
I’m not a heavy effect user, though, I like to keep it pretty dry, and the tubes never caught my interest anyway.
However, the raw sound quality of the new Electribes are just plain good. And if you got that, a groovy sequencer and some trimming fx when it’s needed, I’m wondering what else you need in a piece of gear to build something great.
I guess, in a way, I should ask myself that question for pursuing one of the sp samplers when I’m well covered already and build tracks that I like from it. It’s mainly the Octatrack, actually, which is a great piece of gear, but just does a lot more than I need. I use it for sampling and resampling, but I never build my final tracks within the Octatrack. It’s a means of collecting sounds and sequences, work them a bit and then move them along to the Rytm, where they eventually end up.
If the Rytm had even just basic sampling capabilities, I wouldn’t need the Octatrack.

The SP-303 Vinyl Sim has serious MOJO magic to it. It’s the only real special thing about any of the SP’s IMO, but I love it! The Same effect on the other units is not the same. You have the Octa, so you don’t really need the 404SX’s speed and sample size, modern cards etc, I’d go with a 303, unless you actual want to be doing a lot of work making tracks on the unit itself.

Worth checking out the volca sample too.
Dirt cheap, 32khz sampling, full of character.

I know, right? If that little wonder had just something along the lines of export or decent pattern memory, I’d use that and don’t look back. But eight patterns, even if you use them as drum kits, eventually forces me to start deleting stuff that I really like.

Also, the sp505 (not 555) apparently has the same 20bit converters as the 303 -but its got fancy additions such as a screen that lets you see the waveform when editing.

Always hated editing samples by ear…

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I know, right? If that little wonder had just something along the lines of export or decent pattern memory, I’d use that and don’t look back. But eight patterns, even if you use them as drum kits, eventually forces me to start deleting stuff that I really like.[/quote]
You can sequence it with your OT, Plocks and all.

I’ve had a 202 and 303, and I’m now on a 404SX. I don’t really use it very often, but it still has a place. The features and workflow mean that you’ll often get something quite different from what you’d achieve on the OT. Of course it’s a lot more limited, but that’s what leads you down a different path.

I like having the 404SX hooked up to a portatable turntable, ready for sampling at any time. I think it definitely lends itself to vinyl sampling, and since my turntable has a fairly shoddy built-in preamp I don’t really miss the vinyl compressor of the 303 - my samples arrive in a state of distress of their own accord. It’s also fun to sample a bit of live SP noodling into the OT.

I’m always wary when a piece of equipment gets a reputation for ‘character’ - it can be true, but I suspect the SP-303’s popularity is based as much on artist kudos as it is on genuine character - people think it’s going to give them Madlib in a box, but I feel he’d be doing just as well on an SX - he’d just be doing things faster. The SX has boundless potential, if you can get behind the workflow. I sometimes think of the OT as an uptight, OCD device and the SP as its laid-back country cousin - you’ve got to get into the right mindset. Hopping between them, I don’t know, perhaps it keeps your mind nimble and helps you avoid getting stuck in a rut. Other times you might find yourself fantasising about what you could achieve if the SX had a waveform display or would just let you resample a sequence for Chrissakes.

If I had to buy another SP, I think I’d stick with the 404SX. I certainly wouldn’t want to go back to the deathly crawl of Smartmedia - SD cards are cheap and huge. I don’t mind trimming and chopping by ear - I quite enjoy it - but waiting around soon gets old, and the SX is a major improvement there. I might be tempted to check out a 606 or 555, but they still tend to be pretty costly. I think the SX has a good mix of price, features and design.

The real question is whether I’d buy an SP again at all, and I’m not sure - I bought mine before my OT, and the OT obviously added a lot to me setup. If I’d had the OT first, I’m not sure an SP would have been on my wish list. Hard to say.

In short, I think the SX is a better option than the older models if you want to get things done. I guess if all you want to do is grunge up a beat, the 303 might work out, and it’ll definitely keep its value. I don’t see the SX becoming a vintage treasure, but it’s a solid and flexible machine for the here and now.

I know, right? If that little wonder had just something along the lines of export or decent pattern memory, I’d use that and don’t look back. But eight patterns, even if you use them as drum kits, eventually forces me to start deleting stuff that I really like.[/quote]
You can sequence it with your OT, Plocks and all.[/quote]
As I recall, you and I specifically had this discovery and conversation on the forum a few months ago, and congratulated ourselves on this finding and traded secrets of the guild and all that :joy:
My Volca Sample broke after that. My daughter had too much fun with it. In the spirit of raising children in the good tradition of sampling jam by the kitchen table, I bought another one and she’s having a field day with that one, too.

Thanks for this elaborate and educated answer.
It seems the SX is the way to go, if I’m going down this route. I’m after something that samples easily and has a nice groove, and that can replace my Octatrack. I don’t need much of what the Octatack does after getting the Rytm, and as I mentioned earlier, if the Rytm sampled, I probably would’ve sold the Octa and perhaps not even considered a sampler partner.
But I need hardware to sample. And the Octatrack is good at that. But if that’s my primary purpose - sampling and doing something with that sample - then the Octa is overkill for me.
The upcoming ES2 seems cool, but apparently, it’s a horrible sampler. Solid as a rompler, but sampler - not so much.
So the SP branch seems the most attractive.
Once you’ve got the samples in a sequence, can you adjust their individual volumes and such stuff? How much control do you have over a sample once it’s in a beat in the SP?

One think that maybe important and keep in mind.
I watch one Youtube one video and it is not possible to capture a loop and save to pad all while playing.

All the best,

waldemaR

sp303, the 404 has no character.

A ASR-X is also great. Its sounds very warm and has good effects.

You don’t have a great deal of control, and the control you do have is limited. I think you can use velocity in sequences via MIDI, e.g. with an external keyboard - never tried it. You can resample through effects, which is your only option if you want a sequenced filter sweep. If you want to edit a sequence beyond quantising or removing a sounds, you’re going to end up doing a complete retake. You can’t repitch the samples in any sensible way.

Really an MPC is a much better bet for that kind of thing, even a 500 would outclass an SP by miles in that department. And if you’re looking to sequence beats from individual samples, the MPC has the advantage in polyphony. But the SP hits back with its effects and immediacy.

Ultimately I would say that the MPC, SP and OT all serve different sampling needs - or at least they all provide a unique approach. And you could add a rack sampler for another…

Check out SP videos on YouTube for some useful examples of how people are using them. They tend to be very different to MPC videos, but you can see they both have hidden depths. There are a fair few live sets put up by LeMellotron.com - try here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sp404+live+set. I think the SP is used there because it can stream long samples, but you’ll find some interesting techniques on display too.

You don’t have a great deal of control, and the control you do have is limited. I think you can use velocity in sequences via MIDI, e.g. with an external keyboard - never tried it. You can resample through effects, which is your only option if you want a sequenced filter sweep. If you want to edit a sequence beyond quantising or removing a sounds, you’re going to end up doing a complete retake. You can’t repitch the samples in any sensible way.

Really an MPC is a much better bet for that kind of thing, even a 500 would outclass an SP by miles in that department. And if you’re looking to sequence beats from individual samples, the MPC has the advantage in polyphony. But the SP hits back with its effects and immediacy.

Ultimately I would say that the MPC, SP and OT all serve different sampling needs - or at least they all provide a unique approach. And you could add a rack sampler for another…

Check out SP videos on YouTube for some useful examples of how people are using them. They tend to be very different to MPC videos, but you can see they both have hidden depths. There are a fair few live sets put up by LeMellotron.com - try here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sp404+live+set. I think the SP is used there because it can stream long samples, but you’ll find some interesting techniques on display too.[/quote]
Thanks. A lot.
After having watched these videos last night, what catches my interest is the jamming aspect of it and the effects. I just think it sounds pretty damn good.
Incidentally, an SP555 went up for sale yesterday where I live. But after a closer look, I felt this was overkill for me. And the mojo of the sp303, of which I cannot say but only listen to others, doesn’t seem worth it compared to its outdated features. It’s not like the 404sx doesn’t sound great if you spin it right.
I’m gonna dwell on this now in my sampling lair, perhaps wait until the ES2 is released here in Sweden and try that out first, and then see.
But I appreciated the advise, this forum is seriously one of the best ones out there for electronic musicians and if I had all you guys in a room, I’d bake you a cake and offer fresh coffee with that.