[ Sound Pack + eLearning ] Layers101 : we discuss Layering subject

[ Sound Pack + eLearning ] Layers101 : we discuss Layering subject

Hello as some of you may noticed, this project is on the way.

I recorded Audio Materials and prepare the materials for the Analog Rytm (mono, 16 bits, 48000hz) (part1 is already in our elektronauts files section) and then i will make some sound-design to create original materials, then i will process (tone/color) according to some music genre and make kits.

Thanks to @v00d00ppl who’s in charge of the analog processing of all audio materials to give it proper dynamics and harmonized the overall package.

I thought to create this thread to discuss Layering as a subject

so… we’ll discuss anything related to Layering :

  • Drum Layering
  • Creative Layering
  • Smartly use the Synth and Sample layers of the Analog Rytm
  • Process Layers OTB with the Analog Rytm mkI
  • Process Layers internally with the Analog Rytm mkII
  • Layering strategy when it comes to deal with Layering with the Analog Rytm
  • Glue the kits vs Transcient Design with the Master Compressor
  • and more…

I will write my thoughts and some pre-article as i done for Lowend101. As i said for this one we are going with LMS (Learning Management System) website so, a proper course with progressions tools. (Video, Article, and some files to download.)

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I will try to cover those music genre :

  • Garage Rock
  • HipHop
  • Electro
  • Breakbeat
  • Dub
  • Jungle DNB
  • House
  • Techno
  • Hard Techno
  • Experimental

as well as more modern music genre from their parents stated above as kits and named accordingly

I want to have fun and even if i am more electronic, i do prefer some sounds in acoustic and as a dj i cover already a lot of this music genre… for the other genre i listen them so…
and i may reach some of elektronauts there to get their thoughts along the way.

all the content will be original and as authentic as possible. I delivered some RAW materials i recorded from my Mbase11, Nord Drum and MachineDrum, more will be added when i will get my studio sessions. The acoustic sounds will be recorded in 2 studios which have interesting drums and cymbals. Some drum machines too - but i will processed everything as my sound signature and/or music genre wise.

Don’t worry every RAW materials will be delivered as well so you will be able to shape the elements to your taste

Some of the RAW materials are already downloadable from our files section.

(what i called part1 : RAW_Retro-Color_AR, TKN_RAW_MB_AR, TKN_RAW_MD_AR and TKN_RAW_ND_AR)

download links are in the Analog Rytm Definitive List (with dropbox alternative links)

Thread preamble

as i listed upper in the thread, we’ll discussed « Layering » after all that’s what is about with Layers101.

Layering may be about drum layering, creative layering, smartly use the synth and sample layers of the Analog Rytm but also process layers OTB or/and ITB, as well as gluing the sounds vs transcient design with the Master Compressor and more…

Defining those terms

What’s Drum layering?
Well you know photoshop right it’s like using it with 2 or 3 layers. (sure on the AR we’ll talk about 2 layers) Technically you will heard or read regarding Drum Layering 3 layers : Transient, Body, Tail. But sometimes people call it differently like sauce, punch, click… anyway it’s all about the same, we stack several sounds on top of each other to create : a brand new one, a more define, enhance the AR synth.

What’s Creative Layering
It’s a less conventional way to Layer sounds. For instance it could be enhance a sound in the reverb territory by flatten the output of a reverb and using it as a layer to give a sound a different spice - without using the internal reverb. The reverb can be gated, impulse response of an amplifier not a space modeling. Something like that. It could also be, give the Dual VCO some top bass layers to reach a new level of bass sounds - something using this idea : layering sounds in a synth-multis way as well

Smartly use the synth and sample layers
We can still be in the layering aspect but we do not produce a sound result from two layers, but we use at our disposal 2 layers most of the time. So technically it could be 24 sounds in one kit, but for sure it would be more 16-12 to less. And with sound lock the amount can be insane.

Process layers OTB or/and ITB (outside the box, inside the box)
To gel layers the right way and feel as a result to get a unique flatten sound, we need some processing. I think we can reach the best results outside the box by preparing-uploading. But in some ways we can on the mark II, get some decent results internally with sampling-resampling.

Gluing the sounds vs transcient design (Master Compressor)
It’s a subject on its own. I have my preferences here and it’s not necessarily RYTM relative in itself but more a way of seeing things in general regarding sounds and dynamics. If I layer, let’s say a kick with one AR machine synth model and add on top a click to enhance the definition of the kick… I may not use any transient designer techniques there, because for me it does double duty (and then maybe i would need a waveshaper etc).

I will be more inclined to use my unique master compressor as a master dynamic tool (parallel compression - glue compression - Live performance) instead of a chirurgical processor for sound design (transient designer).

I have three questions for everyone

  • What’s your favorite synth machine on the Analog Rytm ?
  • What’s are the sound(s) you didn’t like and always swap the synth for a (some) sample(s) ?
  • Do you prefer Top Layers as one-shots or sample chains ? (or both)

I love the duovca, I use the hard kick a lot, sometimes layer it with a distorted 909.
I really don’t like the hihats. Use samples for them all the times. Rides are okay, when not too present, it’s 50/50 for me.

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This sounds interesting!

Answers:

  1. DVCO i seem to use the most - i do make melodic stuff and its easier to tune than the other machines. BT for kick drum to start a track, usually end up layering it with some noise or some transient later down the line.

  2. Snare and clap I usually use a sample apart from for ghost notes/fills.

  3. Haven’t got into using sample chains much, interested to learn some things about how/when to use them!

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Favorites:

BD Silky
SD Natural
White Noise
Impulse
DVCO
Classic versions of others are nice.
I also find the hats very usable with the right tweaks.
Even the cowbell has been a melodic synth for me before :joy:

There aren’t any that I dislike.
I don’t really swap anything for samples. I do layer quite a bit but the Analog Machines are usually the main part of the sound. Between filters, overdrive, amp and the LFO you can really alter any of them to be useful IMO.

As for top layers I usually just use single samples for simplicity.
I should get faster at resampling though so I am motivated to make more edits to the layers.

Looking forward to your interesting educational material!

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  • What’s your favorite synth machine on the Analog Rytm ? (bold my favorites)
    BD Hard (the real classic is this one to me) - BD Classic (is cool played chromatically like a 808 miami bass) - BD FM (Layering tip : very nice to get new body tone) - BD Plastic (Layering tip : very nice kick click generator) - BD Silky - BD Sharp (Layering tip : very nice punch generator) - DUAL VCO - RS Hard - CY Ride (a/b type) - CB Classic

  • What’s are the sound(s) you didn’t like and always swap the synth for a (some) sample(s) ? Snare, Clap, Hats (electronic and acoustic) and Ride if i want a acoustic feel… i’m not a big fan of Tom : BT, LT, MT and HT

please elektron would be nice considering a new clap machine as well as more percussion machine (Conga machine : LC, MC, HC maybe ? would be cool)

  • Do you prefer Top Layers as one-shots or sample chains ?
    i think sample chain is a very cool way to get multiple music genre kits working in the same project… so i may end up with using sample chain, but give to people the final choice by delivering both…

But i must admit as a house/techno guy i never was an adopter of “the clap” (but i like the 909 clap and the Tanzbar clap) and i usually prefer Real Snare, Real Hats and Real Ride… probably my passion for Rock/Jazz who influence me… and i love Snap fingers maybe my passion for hiphop…

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Hello just to let people know few things. I was about to records 2 drum set in 2 studio but those studio ask me too much money to records few one-shots. As i visit those i find the drum-set too old and used and recording equipment not so nice.

So i looking for great guys to give me the authorization to use their own recorded materials for Layers 101. That way i’m sure to use proper recorded materials prior to processed them to make the Layers 101 drum-kits. Same goes for electronic materials for equipment that i don’t own.

I like to express my gratitude to those guys right now! I hope you guys will appreciate that as well and check that online their free and commercial stuff as they doing an incredible job! That’s passionate people exactly as we are!

Acoustic RAW Materials i will use (parts of not everything) for Garage Rock, HipHop, Breakbeat, Dub, Jungle DNB :

  • Naked Drums recorded by Alex Wilkinson and Dustin Anstey - (Canada)
    http://wilkinsonaudio.com/ Thanks to Tom Wilkinson who’s get me the authorizations to use their Naked Drums recordings
    you should check out their famous plugin : DeBleeder (VST, AAX, AU)

Electronic RAW Materials i will use (parts of not everything) on top that materials that i recorded from my own equipment for
HipHop, Breakbeat, Dub, Jungle DNB, Electro, House, Techno, Hard Techno, Experimental :


I’m so happy with that, what i like in passion like music is all the great human being persons that we can meet IRL or Not… people are incredibly nice quite most of the time, even the biggest name in the music industry. Thanks to them again they will be credited in the booklet, website and everywhere, when the course-sound pack will be released (for free as it’s for eLearning purpose)

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As I like not to do things by halves, I decided that the layers101 drumkits would be fun.
What do you think ?

Is it open minds enough? will everyone find what they are looking for? I hope so…

So I took a particular angle for the creation of drumkits, trying to offer an alternative to the factory kits of the analog rytm. What, from a drums & percussive point of view, differentiates these musical genres, what elements you “should” use, what treatment you should applied in those music genre context … how to make the most of layering in those different scenario without sounding too “cliché”

NB: now i think @v00d00ppl is afraid if he counts well, but i’m sure that’s the kind of challenge i can count him in :slight_smile:

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Got any examples of all these types of kits in action? That’d be useful, like a track with each one

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The analyzes that will have allowed the construction and the sound synthesis of the drumkits will be included in the tutorial. It is planned but not yet available. I have given the list of drumkits for you to see what I am planning. But i do not give any released date as it’s a lot of work (again) …

Drumkits are programmed/inspired from songs you can find on my spotify playlist

The idea is to synthesis/program/processed recorded materials and to play along few of those tracks included in my playlist. And that each drumkit overall sound match nicely those tracks to serve then as a template. (without forgetting to leave enough margin so that everyone can tune their drumkits according to their needs and Keys)

the overall goal will serve tips and tricks to make everything work. i also hope it inspire people to merge genres, to be interested in more things than what he produces as music themselves - to break rules, transgress genres and borrow sounds for use in other musical contexts. As i do think the future was and still there - … and even more nowadays

Hidden note

a friend of mine who died told me when I was younger that if I got to work on a project that mixes up the music I play, listen to and produce - that I will achieve something. I found that this project is particularly suitable… stay in peace J.C.D.

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Hi,
I love this idea.
My favourite (most used) synths are:
BD Hard, BD Classic, BD Silky,DVCO, Clap, BT (for Bass synth using the 808BD preset available elsewhere), White Noise
I tend to use a 707 kick sample from Samples on Mars that I have HP filtered in Logic to layer my kicks with.
I use samples for hats and various percussion sounds in the Tom voices.
Are you going to be offering patches, as well as samples?
I’m looking forward to this, thanks for your time and effort!
Chris

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Basically i challenge myself to create a more suitable factory library (for me) as well as created a layers library of sample, created the drumkits (48) and bonus.

Yes it will have synth + layers inside not only sample otherwise only the course on drum-layering would make sense :wink: I will explain in details the process and how we may creatively use sample layers on top of the synth

Very true! :grin:
As I said, I’m looking forward to some extra knowledge!

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Thanks Chris I must admit this thread doesn’t get much attention, but people like when things are done and you can get it instantly … (I understand that)

But the fact to write here make this thing a sort of engagement to the community and track my progress and it work on me to deliver even if I face difficulties.

We all find motivations on different ground/level :slight_smile:

i will bump you when things will be ready to beta test
cheers

Drum tuning Intervals

A little quote from the amazing attack magazine book called : “the secret of dance music production”

It’s a common things in Real World Drums (meaning acoustic drums) to tune the drum set like a jazz drum set will be tune higher than a rock drum set. Or the Poncho Sanchez Conga set is tuned on E/G/C … But we can also think to Prince who tuned each hits of his Drum Machine LM1, the kick in D in a D Major song for example.

Tuning our drums and generally the most important one (kick, eventually snare) are done on the Root key of the scale.
But we can also make a good use of the Thirds (minor third +3 and major third +4) and the Fifth (+7)

When Synthesis is more noise based or very altered (FM, Additive) the tuning will be more focus on taste and how things work together more impact pitched that way or more pleasant that way. It’s a lot more focus on energy and what’s work to you or not.

You can refresh your knowledge or learn your intervals here :
https://www.elektronauts.com/files/497

Finally I think I will update this file and add those +3, +4 and +7 to help a bit more

Analog-Four-Intervals


Thats where the Analog Rytm Tun Table come handy, you can still download it here
https://www.elektronauts.com/files/419

so Root/3/4/7 is something to memorized :slight_smile:
these will help also with synthesis & chords anyway…

Worth mentioning before someone jump on me :slight_smile:

The more the drum are short (small decay-release) the more we hear the transients instead of the tone (timbre) the less tuning is important. But keep in mind the 808 Kick for example, very noticeable a bit like a Bass sounds so yeah tuning will have an effect.

As I said just before it’s also different with noise based material. But there’s still some sounds like a Electronic Snare for instance created by tone + noise, can be a good idea to tune the tone…

Worth mentioning also :

  • Drums can influence the music genre
  • Music genre can influence the Drums
  • By design a Synthesized Drum may sound better in a small range (tuning may destroy its design) Kick is often in F, G, A, C
  • Club music are produced in few keys simply because it’s works best with big sound system in terms of reproduction of the low-end. Going lower than that may be an issue. going lower than the actual 808 kick - F#1 = 46.25hz would started to be more an infrabass or a sub not really the range for a root note that we’ll want it to be distinct and not only feel. + a lot of engineer cut 20-30hZ as well for the vinyl if any are produced. it’s important to keep that in mind.
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It’s quite a good way to track development.
I remember the guys that created the Mini-Rig speaker system outlining everything on the SpeakerPlans forum. They documented the journey and they have been successfully selling their Mini-Rig systems for the past few years.
It can also be a motivator if it’s out in public too. :slight_smile:
I’m enjoying this thread…

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