Sound Design Methods

The Lounge Other Gear
#6

FM synths may be able to get something close to what you want, but nut maybe a better option would be a physical modelling synth. Luckily, Logic has one built-in that you can try out: Sculpture. It’s pretty complicated but there are tutorials on YouTube etc and it has a bunch of presets that you can check out how they were made. Or, for something a bit easier to understand you might try AAS’s Chromaphone. I believe there is a trial.

Or you could use a mic and record the real thing, as @esq noted :slight_smile:

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#7

Would suggest some „standard“ solutions for scoring and film music, try Omnisphere, Madrona Labs synths (they’re very organic sounding but could be very deep and good for sound design ), Miroslav phiharmonik 2 (really good and easy to use orchestra ).

I guess with this 3 you will get covered for years.

For more hardware approach try modular and Mutable Elements and other modules, they will provide what u want.

Waldorf Quantum will also get u busy : )

My 2 cents :slight_smile:

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#8

Really depends on how much you are willing to spend and how much time you want to spend exploring.

Two rather expensive but comprehensive solutions are Omnisphere (roughly $500) for an all-in-one package with crazy numbers of sampled and designed sounds and lots of different ways to tweak those sounds. If I had to choose just one instrument plugin, it would be Omnisphere for its depth and versatility (and I think it has an overall outstanding interface). Then, there’s Native Instruments Komplete, which is its own universe of plugins, including Kontakt that will give you sampled sounds, but also a bunch of different synths and effects to use as well.

Don’t forget about Alchemy in Logic (free), which is really deep and you already own it.

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#9

I love Madrona stuff - they’re amazingly powerful, both from a synth perspective and from an effects angle.

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#10

In hardware Waldorf Iridium/Quantum might be interesting to check.
@vvilms or @Astrolab might tell you more about these.

But even with your own gear there might be ways you haven’t considered yet?
What’s your arsenal composed of?
GAS is not always the answer :wink:

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#11

Very true. And it might just be that I am not very good at programming sounds from scratch with hardware synths. I feel like in terms of the more sculptural sounds a good synth programmer could probably use any avaravge synth to do that. And maybe a different tool that features some different mangling options would open some new ways of thinking about crafting sounds for me.
I work with an Octa, Blofeld, Minitaur, TG-33, a desktop Evolver and a Hydra. In terms of software it’s Logic plus Soundtoys and FabFilter FX.
I’ve had this same setup more or less for years but despite some minor (to me) differences, programming and crafting with these synths follows the same path. Unlike, for instance, MAX/MSP from what I remember when I played around with it a decade ago.
That’s on the unusual sounds end of things. I am not just looking for another synth but to understand if there are sound design systems that approach sound crafting differently. Perhaps what was mentioned above about the MAX tools in Ableton.
Re orchestral sounds, I think that in order to get to the detailed Hi Fi calssical instrument sound I am after I need to purchase the right software synth or sound packs.

#12

Honestly you don’t need to buy anything. I envy you. Logic has great stock synth (most DAWs do these days) I think all you need to do is experiment with sound design. Maybe watch some YouTube videos or read some SOS articles. Play around with VCV rack and see what unique sounds can happen in a modular world.

I will say for those more natural sounds like you describe you may want to go the sampling route, or as some have said the physical modeling route. You can just get a recording of a bouncing ball speeding up. But if you want to approximate it using synthesis that would probably be more fun.

#13

It might be fun to explore the weirdest side of thee synths, program percussions for instance that you sample and mangle further.

SOS series is a good suggestion to understand different kind of synthesis, and reach your goals.

#14

…for mocking truu orchestra, u might wanna have a look for ni kontakt, since most of the virtual orchestra lib’s are produced for this format these days…
if u wanna have a super pro option…check for vsl…vienna symphonic libary…
if u know what ur doing here, nothing can get u that close to real thing as there stuff…
while all the famous kontakt orchestra collections work a bit like with the instant and impressive right out of the box big brush…

but what ur asking for, sounds to me like more electro accoustic approaches and new experimental grounds…
and the best to start here, is to invest in a fieldrecorder and hunt down some of ur ideas in real life action situations, to process them further on…

with what…?..i’m also long time logic user…and as solid and homeground it is and feels to me…i really needed some fresh take on the concept daw and sounddesign, too…
and found myself to be more than happy, more than new inspired and endlessly opened to create whatever i could think of and beyond…with bitwig…

download the demo and have a look around…it speaks for itself…u will see…er…hear…

especially if now start thinking about buying into ableton…no…don’t bother…and go straight for the other berlin new school of thinking how to handle and treat audio and midi…
same same…but very different…promise.

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#15

Just listened to a few demos and this is very much in line with the elasticity of sound and manipulation that I had in mind. But it almost feels a little bit like cheating, like taking someone else’s programing and then just using it for your sound. That they already did all the hard work of creating the paths. For instance here:

I feel like if you use these bee sounds even if you change the pitch add FX time stretch etc then one just uses his sounds, no? Sound wise it is very much where I am at in my mind.

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#16

I can absolutely see that perspective - and it’s the same criticism that I see leveled at a lot of M4L devices, to be totally honest. I don’t tend to use things the way you’re supposed to, I don’t think, so maybe there’s an element of being deliberately obtuse to get to the roads less travelled l, as it were. Like using a drum loop for a reverb impulse, for example. You’re obviously not supposed to do that, but all kinds of awesomely odd things can happen if you do.

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#17

Interesting. Yes and for sure electro acoustic is the word. Just completely escaped my mind. I will for sure look at Bit wig. Completely unfamiliar with it. And I was actually looking at this the other day

Thinking what kind of software would be most suited for simulating this type of flow. Were you could easily create and manipulate the space in which all the sound objects you create will bounce around.

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#18

Previous forum discussions on sound design often include recommendations for the book “Designing Sound” by Andy Farnell:

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#19

…yup, well…the modular planet is of course THE other big option to go for…
but be warned…once u open this pandorras box…it’s never ending…

if modular mindset is something for U, is easy to find out with the software simulation mainfrme host…VCV RACK…where pretty much all famous and essential brands give out virtual versions of their rack hardware ideas at ur fingertip for free…almost as good as the real thing…but for an unbeatable and still unbelievable pricetag of nothing…!!!
it’s a virtual modularrack…that can grow to any size u can dream of…loaded with damend convincing copies of all the real stuff, that would cost u thousands and thousands bux in real hardware…

but…not to forget…it’s something else once u start plugging virtual cables all over a virtual rack…while bitwig again, has also something pretty similar to all that built in already…the grid is nothing but also a modular experimental do it ur own virtual sonic playground with an endless amount of modules, but way more like basic building blox to create ur own sonic tools of all kind…

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#20

Absolutely yea I can’t quite open that Pandora box but I think it’s a destination for the future. For now with yours and everyone’s recs I will start with VCV and Bitwig I think it will be a nice chance to stand on a new and different ground where maybe the sounds can develop differently.

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#21

Ooh also very exciting thanks I’ll check it out!

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#22

for orchestral EastWest is pretty much all you can ever need. It’s pretty simple to use as far as I can remember and it just do exactly the hollywood style orchetra really quickly!
http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition

#23

reverse engineer bro

you wanna know how i learned synthesis? i took preset patches on some hardware synths i like and just twiddled the knobs to get them in the proper place. the bass station and the MS2000 for instance had little lights that would blink when you put the knob in the same spot as the preset.

so you can take this dude’s patches, or any patches and just copy them over yourself doing the hard work. i’m actually currently in the process of doing that with the Digitone to better understand FM. especially some of those wild, metallic percussion sounds. i’m nowhere near good at it yet but i’m coming to grips with it better and frankly haven’t spent all that much time.

#24

I took a sound design class once and the lecturer was well versed in super collider. just like drawing, or creating 3d objects from scratch, he could ‘imagine’ the type of sound he wanted to create, then go about coding a program to create it. for instance thinking bouncing ball, sharp attack, fm as others have said, a touch of delay etc. it was quite impressive watching him do it, but I guess it’s not too different to using a synth in traditional ways, but with supercollider I guess it’s like calling up what you need over using a full blown instrument.

perhaps even just some samples of hitting wood or metal, a touch of delay. sometimes it can be super nice to get into a studio and go the foley route, the weird things can end up making the ‘right’ sound, and not the thing u actually intended. Plus it’s super fun being in the studio doing all that stuff

freesound.org is another great resource. I think for a sound designer, all bets are off to a degree, just go to town and forget about ‘who’s sounds are who’s’ etc, you could say the synth designer of Elektron machines own the sounds we create with them if that’s the case, and that kinda thinking will only hold u back

#25

If you want to have them as close as possible to true physical sounds, I would recommend to check out sampling.

If possible, create your own field recordings, if not, check out sample instruments, which come close enough to your requirements and treat them with FX as needed.

It’s not a bad idea to check out Komplete. Since a couple of years they have instruments, which might have what you are looking for.

  • Mysteria
  • Thrill
  • Unacorda
  • The Giant

There are very good instruments made by Heavyocity: https://heavyocity.com/

Physical modelling synths could also be a direction to go:

As an example AAS (Applied Acoustic Systems) have specialized on physical modelling synths and there are a couple more …
https://www.applied-acoustics.com/